The extraordinary psychology of Déjà vu, with Dr Akira O'Connor
发布时间 2023-02-27 00:00:00 来源
摘要
Sorry if we’ve already asked, but do you know what causes déjà vu? Or why you experience it less as you get older? Just in case you're unsure, we got the answers from Dr Akira O’Connor, senior psychology lecturer at the University of St Andrews. In this episode, he talks us through the bizarre neuroscience of déjà vu, from what makes you more prone to it, to how you can easily create an artificial sense of déjà vu in somebody else.
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Hello and welcome to Instant Genius, the Bite Size Masterclass in podcast form. I'm Thomas Ling, digital editor at BBC Science Focus magazine.
大家好，欢迎来到《Instant Genius》这个以播客形式呈现的小课堂。我是BBC科学焦点杂志的数字编辑托马斯·林。
In your lifetime you probably felt deja vu, that strange overwhelming sensation that you're currently experiencing something that's already happened. However, you might be unfamiliar with how by studying this memory illusion, scientists have uncovered some amazing truths about the human brain.
在你的人生中，你可能感到了“似曾相识”的感觉，就是你现在正在体验一些已经发生过的事情，这种感觉可能会让你感到奇怪且压倒性。但是，你可能不知道，通过研究这种记忆幻象，科学家已经揭示出了一些有关人类大脑的惊人真相。
One of these scientists is Dr. Ekiirya Okona, senior psychology lecturer at the University of Sydney, Andrews. He joins me to explain why deja vu happens, how deja vu is actually the sign of a healthy brain, why you experience it less as you get older, and also the strange case of one man who lived in a constant state of deja vu for several weeks.
这些科学家中之一就是爱德华兹大学的高级心理学讲师艾基利亚·奥科纳博士。他加入我一起解释为什么会出现“早已经历过的感觉”（deja vu），如何说明一颗健康的大脑，为什么随着年龄的增长，会经历这种感觉的频率会减少，以及一个男人持续几周处于“早已经历过的感觉”（deja vu）的奇怪案例。
Hello Ekiirya, thank you very much for joining me.
嗨，Ekiirya，非常感谢你加入我。
Hi, thanks for asking me to speak with you.
嗨，谢谢你邀请我和你谈话。
So I'm going to start from the top and ask what is deja vu? Is it simply that feeling that you've experienced something that's happened before?
所以我打算从头开始，问一下什么是“既视感”？它只是那种让你感觉自己经历过之前的事情吗？
It's a little bit more than that. It's the feeling that you've experienced something before, along with this kind of counterfeeling that you know you haven't experienced it before. So it's this kind of duality of your experience. I feel that's familiar, but I also know from everything I know about my life that that is not true, that feeling of familiarity is incorrect.
这不仅仅是这样的。它是你经历过某些事情的感觉，伴随着一种相反的感觉，你知道自己以前没有经历过。所以这是你体验的两重性。我感觉这很熟悉，但我也知道从我所知道的关于我的生活的一切来看，这并不正确，那种熟悉的感觉是错误的。
So does that mean that a lot of people might not actually notice they're having that experience?
那是不是意味着很多人可能实际上都没有注意到他们正在经历这种体验呢？
It would do if it wasn't accompanied by a feeling of strangeness, a feeling of kind of weird oddness that makes you notice the different aspects of your kind of conscious experience coming together and disagreeing with each other.
如果没有一种陌生感，一种奇怪的怪异感让你注意到你的意识体验中不同的方面聚集在一起并相互不一致的话，这些话也可以说得通。
And so it's why people typically describe deja vu as feeling strange or weird or odd. It's why you comment on it to your friends when it happens, because if it was just a part of your everyday experience, it wouldn't be noteworthy, but it's that particular combination of things feeling wrong because you've got these these almost arguing inputs into your conscious experience going on.
因此，人们通常将“似曾相识”描述为感觉奇怪或怪异，这就是为什么当它发生时，你会向朋友发表评论，因为如果它只是你日常经历的一部分，那就不值得一提，但它是这些感觉错乱的特定组合，因为你的意识体验中有几乎是相互争论的输入。
So why do we have this feeling? What causes it?
那么我们为什么会有这种感觉呢？是什么引起了它？
There's a few different ideas about what causes deja vu. The idea that we've been working on in our lab is that there's a set of brain regions in your medial temporal lobe. So these are brain regions that are associated with memories associated with setting down new memories associated with retrieving old memories.
关于引起“已经经历过”的感觉（deja vu）的原因，有几个不同的想法。我们在实验室里一直研究的思路是，你的中颞叶里有一组大脑区域。这些大脑区域与记忆、建立新的记忆以及检索旧的记忆有关。
There are brain regions that signal when we're finding something familiar. Now usually those brain regions signal that we're finding something familiar when we are actually retrieving a memory. Because sometimes those brain regions can just signal familiarity in a way that isn't quite right. They're kind of twitching like your eye might twitch when you're tired.
有些大脑区域会在我们发现某些熟悉的东西时发出信号。通常情况下，这些大脑区域会在我们回忆起某个记忆时发出信号。因为有时这些大脑区域只想表达一种不太正确的熟悉感。就像在累的时候你的眼睛可能会抽动一样。
They're kind of over eager and keen to signal and they do so when there isn't anything to find familiar. Now those brain regions have consequences for the rest of the brain. Obviously, they send these signals elsewhere. And there's another set of brain regions, the frontal cortex, that do a lot of fact-checking, a lot of higher order cognition.
他们比较急切并且热切地想要发出信号，即使没有找到熟悉的东西也会这样做。现在，这些脑区会对整个大脑产生影响。很显然，它们会把这些信号发送到其他地方。还有另一组脑区，前额皮质，它们进行大量的事实检查和高阶认知。
What happens when those frontal regions get this incorrect familiarity signal is they do a bunch of fact-checking, a bunch of, well, is this consistent with the rest of my life? Does this feeling make sense when they determine that it doesn't make sense? That's when you get this kind of mismatch of familiarity signal and awareness that the familiarity signal is incorrect. So you've got this kind of error correction going on and that's the feeling of deja vu.
当额叶区域接收到错误的熟悉信号时会发生什么呢？它们会进行一大堆的事实核查，比如这与我的生活其他部分是否一致？当他们确定这种感觉没有道理时，它们就会产生一种不匹配的熟悉信号和意识，表明熟悉信号是错误的。因此，你会感觉到一种错误纠正正在进行，这就是已经见过的感觉。
So is this quite a bit to do with memory processing in the brain?
这与大脑中的记忆处理有很大关系，对吗？
It's memory processing combined with the higher order reasoning. So for example, a lot of people will typically report that they experience deja vu when they're traveling. And there's a few reasons why that might be the case to do with tiredness, to do with the age at which people are when they tend to do the most traveling and so on.
这是记忆处理和高阶推理的结合。比如，很多人在旅行时会经常报告他们经历了“既视感”。这可能与疲劳或人们在做最多旅行时的年龄等几个原因有关。
But one of the reasons that it becomes really obvious when you're traveling is that a lot of the time people are acutely aware that they haven't been to that place before. So it becomes really easy for the fact checking frontal lobes to say, hang on a minute, there's no way I can find this familiar. This must be a deja vu. So that's set against, for example, deja vu, you might have when you're at home or when you're at university or school or at work, where it becomes a little bit trickier to determine whether or not something is familiar because the whole surrounding is quite mundane and quite familiar.
在旅行时，有一个很明显的原因是，很多时候人们会非常清楚地意识到他们之前没有去过那个地方。所以检查事实的前额叶很容易说，等一下，我完全找不到这个熟悉。这一定是早就经历过的感觉。相比之下，当你在家里、在大学、学校或者工作时，你可能会有一种类似的早有耳闻的感觉，但是判断这个感觉是否熟悉起来会更困难，因为整个环境非常平凡、熟悉。
So I guess being somewhere new really helps the frontal lobes figure out that yes, this is an incorrect sensation of familiarity. So is it effectively then the memory correcting itself? It's quite a healthy thing to experience.
我猜在一个陌生的地方真的能帮助前额叶弄清楚，这确实是一种不正确的熟悉感。所以这是否有效地是记忆正在矫正自己？这是一种非常健康的体验。
Yeah, that's a really good way of thinking about it. Deja vu tends to happen most in young people. Young people between teenagers and early 20s and what we know about memory is that that's when our memory is healthiest, that's when our memories are most likely to be correct.
是的，这是非常好的思考方式。似曾相识往往发生在年轻人身上。青少年和二十出头的年轻人最容易有这种感觉。关于记忆，我们知道在这个年龄段，我们的记忆最健康，最容易保持正确。
It says we age that we start making more memory errors. If deja vu were a memory error, then it would probably increase as we age, but it doesn't, it's the opposite. So that all points to this being a very healthy error correction process within a healthy memory system.
这段话说我们年纪大了会开始犯更多的记忆错误。如果“既视感”是一种记忆错误的话，随着年龄的增长，“既视感”可能会增加，但事实并非如此，相反，它是相反的。所以这一切都表明这是一个非常健康的错误校正过程，属于一个健康的记忆系统。
So should I be worried as someone in my early 30s that I don't really experience deja vu that much anymore? No, you shouldn't be worried because you're just like everyone else.
那么，作为一个三十多岁的人，我不再那么经常经历幻觉，是应该感到担心吗？不，你不用担心，因为你和其他人一样。
I used to experience deja vu a lot in my teens in my early 20s and now the experience is a sadly like hen's teeth. It's a bit of a shame because I'm a deja vu researcher. I love to experience it, but sadly, it doesn't happen so much anymore.
我在十几岁和二十岁初经常有经历似曾相识的感觉，但现在这种体验就像鸡牙一样稀少了。这有些遗憾，因为我是一个似曾相识现象的研究者。我很喜欢有这种体验，但可惜的是，它现在发生的频率不那么高了。
So is there any evidence that deja vu is actually a signal that's been a change in the matrix? That's a lot of people's kind of entry into thinking about deja vu into thinking about what's going on when they experience deja vu. And it's a pretty cool film. I do enjoy the matrix, but it's probably not anything as fantastical as that.
那么，有没有证据表明“既视感”实际上是矩阵中发生了变化的信号呢？这是很多人思考“既视感”和他们经历既视感时考虑到的入口。这是一部非常酷的电影。我很喜欢《黑客帝国》，不过它可能没有那么奇幻。
There's all sorts of evidence suggesting that if you start stimulating people's brains, if you start giving people medications that interact with certain forms of brain chemistry, that you can quite reliably increase deja vu. So it's probably much more to do with what's going on inside someone's head than what's going on in their surroundings.
有各种证据表明，如果你开始刺激人们的大脑，如果你开始给人们药物，与某些形式的脑化学相互作用，你可以相当可靠地增加“已经看到过”的感觉。所以这可能更多地与人们头脑中正在发生的事情有关，而不是他们周围的情况。
So is there anything that makes somebody more susceptible to experiencing deja vu? Yeah. So younger people are more likely to experience deja vu. People with certain diseases are more likely to experience deja vu. So diseases like epilepsy and in some cases diseases like dementia. And then people who are tired tend to experience deja vu more as well.
那么，有什么因素会使人更容易经历“既视感”吗？是的。年轻人更容易经历“既视感”。某些疾病的患者也更容易经历“既视感”，例如癫痫和某些情况下的老年痴呆症。疲劳的人也更容易经历“既视感”。
Why is it that if you are tired, you would experience deja vu more. If deja vu is the memory correcting itself, I would have thought that the opposite would happen. That's a really great question.
为什么当你感到疲惫时，会更容易经历“似曾相识”的感觉呢？如果“似曾相识”的感觉是记忆在纠正自己，那我本以为情况会相反。这是个非常好的问题。
I think one of the reasons we experienced deja vu more when we're tired is probably to do with the fact that when we're tired, a lot of the systems that keep our nerves transmitting correctly and kind of keep our nervous systems in good order, start to get a little bit frayed. So just as you might notice, your eye might twitch a little bit more. You might start making a few more errors in some of your thinking when you're tired.
我想，我们在疲累时体验到更多的“似曾相识”可能是因为这时我们的神经系统的许多保持神经传输正确的系统开始变得有些松散。就像你可能会注意到你的眼睛会更容易抽搐，当你疲累的时候你的思维可能会犯更多的错误。因此，这可能会导致我们更经常体验到“似曾相识”的感觉。
That's probably what's happening to the familiarity signaling within your brain. But the really important thing about that is that the frontal cortex is still capable of catching those errors. So we're not so tired that we stop noticing these things. And that's the really important aspect of the experience. That the error happens and that's more likely when you're tired. But that also you're still able to notice that the error is happening because you haven't lost your wits completely.
这可能正在发生在你大脑里传递的熟悉感信号上。但更重要的是，前额皮质仍然能够发现这些错误。所以我们并不会因为太累而停止注意这些事情。这是这种经历中真正重要的方面。出错了，尤其是当你累的时候更容易出错。但你仍然能够注意到这个错误发生了，因为你没有完全失去理智。
So does somebody's level of certain neuro transmitters impact their susceptibility to experiencing deja vu? Yeah. So that's one of the things that we think is happening when people take certain drugs, they can elevate excitatory neurotransmitters like dopamine.
那么某人的某些神经递质水平是否影响其容易经历“似曾相识” ？是的。因此，我们认为当人们服用某些药物时，它们可能会提高兴奋型神经递质（例如多巴胺）的水平。
And dopamine in the brain causes all sorts of neurons to fire more than they would otherwise, including brain regions, neurons in brain regions that signal familiarity. It's why we think younger people are more likely to have deja vu because they have more excitatory neurotransmitters which lead to this firing.
在大脑中，多巴胺会导致各种神经元比平时更频繁地兴奋，包括一些能够信号熟悉感的区域和神经元。这就是为什么我们认为年轻人更容易出现“似曾相识”的感觉，因为他们拥有更多的兴奋性神经递质，导致这些神经元更容易被激活。
This firing of familiarity, the signaling of familiarity that then gets caught by the frontal cortex. And it's also why as you age, as these levels of neurotransmitters start to decrease, we start seeing decreases in deja vu.
这种熟悉感的释放，一旦被前额皮层捕捉到，也就意味着它的产生。而正因为如此，随着年龄的增长，神经传递素水平开始下降时，会导致人们经历的“似曾相识”体验越来越少。
That's quite depressed actually. It's kind of like as you get older, everything is not as exciting. You don't enjoy things as much. Is that really? Yeah.
其实那很令人沮丧。随着年龄增长，一切都不像以前那么令人兴奋。你对事物的喜欢也不如以前了。真的吗？是的。
You don't enjoy things as much, but perhaps, but you also make fewer kind of risky and impulsive decisions, which is probably good for kind of safety and well-being in the long run. So there's a time to be impulsive when you're young, when there are probably slightly fewer things riding on it, riding on things going wrong as well. So it's a nice system that probably works well for humanity in the long run.
你可能不会像年轻时那样享受事物，但也因此做出较少冒险和冲动的决定，这对保持长期的安全和福祉来说可能是有好处的。当你年轻时，或许有更少的事情令你操心，所以可能更容易冲动一些。这是一个好的系统，也许对于人类长期来说非常有效。
That was quite a diplomatic answer. Is there anything else that could impact if you experience deja vu more?
那真是个很有外交手腕的回答。还有什么其他的因素可能会影响你是否会经常感到“似曾相识”呢？
Yep. So there are certain, I've already mentioned pharmacological substances, certain drugs that people take. So people report deja vu as part of taking certain recreational drugs like cannabis, like amphetamines, but there are also some really interesting case studies of people who've taken, for example, different sorts of flu drugs, taken them together and noticed that everything that they encounter having taken that combination of drugs led to them feeling the experience of deja vu..
是的。有些药物，我已经提过，就是药品。人们吸食某些娱乐药物（如大麻、安非他命等）时，会报告出现“似曾相识”的感觉。但是，也有一些非常有趣的案例研究，例如人们服用不同种类的流感药物并将它们结合在一起，注意到他们遇到的每一件事情都会让他们感受到“似曾相识”的体验。
Now that case study was really neat, someone after my own heart, because they actually carried on taking the drugs for the full course because they found the continuous deja vu so interesting that they didn't want it to stop. So what sort of things did they experience then if they had this persisted deja vu? They felt like everything they were encountering was familiar, but they knew that it couldn't be as familiar as they were feeling it to be because that sensation, and to have that sensation in such a prolonged way for everything you encounter is not how we go about experiencing the world. So they were really kind of fact checking cross-referencing whether or not that feeling was part of their normal experience and finding that no, this really isn't, which is what gave them the sensation of deja vu.
这个案例真的很有意思，就像我一样的人一定很喜欢，因为他们实际上继续服用药物，直到完整的疗程结束，因为他们发现持续的似曾相识感很有趣，所以不想停止。那么，如果他们一直有这种似曾相识的感觉，会发生什么事情呢？他们觉得所有遇到的事情都很熟悉，但他们知道它不可能像他们感觉的那样熟悉，因为这种感觉持续很久并不是我们认识这个世界的方式。因此，他们实际上进行了事实核查和交叉参考，确认这种感觉不是他们正常的经历，这就给了他们似曾相识的感觉。
Wow. Is there a complete opposite as well? Have there been people who have felt where nothing is new to them?
哇，完全相反的存在吗？有人曾经觉得什么都不新奇吗？
Yeah. So the experience deja vu is from French for already seen. The opposite experience is called jamme vu from the French never seen, and it's kind of the equal and opposite experience. So it's the inappropriate feeling of unfamiliarity for something that you know should feel more familiar.
是的。所以“经历过去曾经看过”的体验来自法语。相反的经历叫做“从未见过”的法语词“jamme vu”, 它是一种有点类似于相反的体验。所以，它是指你本应该觉得非常熟悉的事物，却感到非常陌生，不合适的感觉。
People sometimes get this feeling when they're, for example, seeing people they haven't seen in a while and they feel much more unfamiliar than they should. Given that, for example, they've known them for years and years, a really straightforward way of generating this feeling in yourself is to write words out over and over. You might have done this if you ever got lines at school. You can write your lines as a full sentence across the page or if you look for a bit of a break and you want to do things slightly differently, you might write the words down the page in a column of the same word.
有时候人们会有这种感觉，比如说他们看到有一些长时间没有见面的人，这些人会比他们本应该的更加陌生。考虑到他们可能已经认识他们很多年了，让自己产生这种感觉的一种非常简单的方法就是反复写单词。如果你曾经因为罚站而写过行数，你可能已经做过这样的事情。你可以把你要写的句子写在整个页面上，或者如果你想要稍微改变一下，可以把单词分列写在一页纸的同一列中。
When you do that, that leads to a sensation known as word alienation, which we think is very similar to jamme vu, where the words stops making as much sense as it did when you first wrote it out. It seems to break up. It seems to lose meaning. And that weirdness in the feeling is very similar to what we think is happening when people experience jamme vu.
当你这样做时，会引起一种被称为“文字疏离”的感觉，我们认为这与思维再现非常相似，即当你第一次将其写出时，单词不再像以前那样有意义。它似乎被打破了。它似乎失去了意义。这种感觉中的奇怪之处非常类似于当人们经历思维再现时所发生的事情。
So, does it matter if you are going to do this experiment on yourself? What word you write and how long should you be writing this word for?
那么，如果你要在自己身上进行这个实验，这是否有影响？你写下的单词是什么，你需要写多久这个单词？
Yeah, so there have been some studies that we've done looking at which particular words are more likely to lead to familiarity breaking down like that. But it doesn't take long for people to experience this. People can typically experience this within kind of 15 to 30 repetitions of that word. Some words it might be quicker, some words it might take a lot longer or it might not happen at all. But yeah, it's a pretty reliable phenomenon you can induce in yourself.
嗯，我们做了一些研究，看看哪些特定的词语更容易导致熟悉度的破裂，但人们很快就会体验到这一点。在重复这个词语大约15到30次以内，人们通常就能感受到这一点。有些词语可能会更快地导致这种现象，有些可能需要更长时间或根本不会发生。但是，是一个相当可靠的现象，你可以自己引发这种现象。
Are there any people who have this sensation permanently?
有没有人会永久地有这种感觉？
Yeah. So, Desha Vu can manifest clinically in people with other health problems. One of those health problems would be dementia. And we occasionally hear about some quite heartbreaking stories of people who've started undergoing dementia. And so we're obviously acutely aware that they're starting to forget a lot of things. Then at some point they get the sensation of familiarity and that everything starts to seem familiar. And obviously it seems like a relief to start with until they realize that actually that familiarity is being applied everywhere to everything, even for things that probably shouldn't be familiar to them. And so yeah, this manifestation of Desha Vu, we refer to as Desha Veku. It's already lived as though everything you're experiencing in your life is familiar. And it can be really upsetting and really problematic for some people.
嗯，所以Déjà vu在其他健康问题的人身上可能会表现出临床症状。其中之一就是痴呆症。我们偶尔会听到一些非常令人心碎的故事，关于那些开始患有痴呆症的人。显然，他们开始遗忘很多东西，我们对此有敏锐的意识。然后在某些时候，他们会感到熟悉并开始觉得一切都很熟悉。一开始很明显这似乎是一种解脱，直到他们意识到实际上这种熟悉感被应用到了任何事物中，即使是那些可能不应该对他们来说是熟悉的事物。所以，是的，这种Déjà vu的表现，我们称之为Déjà Vecu。就好像你已经经历过你生活中的一切一样。这对某些人来说可能非常令人不安和麻烦。
So it's more serious than say having the feeling that you're watching TV and you've seen everything. It has much more serious implications than that. Yeah, it has what we call behavioral consequences.
这个问题比你只是感觉看电视时看到了所有东西还要严重。它有着更加严重的影响，我们称之为行为后果。
So Desha Vu, healthy Desha Vu doesn't tend to lead to much more than us remarking on it to our friends and family. Oh, weird. I'm having a strange experience. But people who are experiencing Desha Veku, clinical Desha Vu will often start acting on those experiences.
所以 Desha Vu，健康的 Desha Vu 没有什么不同于我们对家人和朋友说它的评论。哦，奇怪。我有一个奇怪的经历。但是那些经历 Desha Veku，临床的 Desha Vu 的人经常会开始根据这些经历采取行动。
So you might be watching television. And if you've got Desha Veku, then you might think, ah, I've seen this before. I need to change the channel. I need to turn the TV off. I need to modify my behavior because I actually believe that this familiarity is true.
你可能正在看电视。如果你看到了Desha Veku，你可能会想，啊，我之前看过这个了。我需要换个频道。我需要关掉电视。我需要改变我的行为，因为我真的相信这种熟悉感是真实的。
And we've had people contacting the BBC because they're sick and tired of all the repeats that they keep seeing on every single BBC channel they go to. And whilst that might be the case once or twice, it isn't the case that that's all the BBC is showing. Therefore, we have an idea that these people reporting in with those complaints are probably experiencing Desha Veku.
我们收到了一些来自观众的联系，因为他们已经看腻了在每个BBC频道上都不断重播的节目。虽然可能有一两次这样的情况，但不是BBC一直都在播放重播。因此，我们认为这些投诉的人可能正在经历“德沙·维库”的困扰。
Are there any other strange parallels of Desha Veku about that? Yeah. So Joseph Heller wrote in Catch 22 about three sorts of dissociative experience. One was Desha Veku, one was Shamayvu, and the third was Preskayvu.
Desha Veku有哪些其他奇怪的相似之处？是的。约瑟夫·海勒在《第22条军规》中写道，有三种不同的分裂体验。一个是Desha Veku，一个是Shamayvu，第三个是Preskayvu。
Preskayvu being the sensation of insight, of false insight. So people often experience something like Preskayvu when they are, when they wake from a dream, and that dream seems to have given them the answers to whatever it was that might have been worrying them or they might have been thinking about over the past few days.
Preskayvu是见解、虚假见解的感觉。所以人们经常会在醒来时经历类似Preskayvu的感觉，因为他们做梦时好像已经找到了对过去几天所担忧或思考的问题的答案。
Now very occasionally, the dream has been pretty important in helping to figure things out. But more often than not, what we find is that Preskayvu is this kind of illusory sensation. Everything seems like it makes sense when you wake from that dream. But as soon as you go to tell someone, it stops making sense. It just starts being this weird dream rather than the answer to everything.
现在，做梦有时候会很有帮助，帮助我们理清事情。但通常情况下，我们发现做梦只是一种虚幻的感觉。当你从梦中醒来时，所有的事情似乎都很有道理。但是一旦你告诉别人，它就变得没有意义了。它只是一个奇怪的梦而不是一切答案。
Now there are all sorts of situations in which this happens in real life, I guess, when you're out and about rather than just when you've woken up from a night's sleep. And I guess those sorts of Preskayvu sensations tend to be quite noteworthy because dreams are a bit weird.
现实生活中有各种情境会导致这种现象出现，我猜，当你外出活动时会比仅仅从晚上睡醒更加常见。我想，这种Preskayvu感觉往往相当引人注目，因为梦很奇怪。
But out and about in life, you don't expect to have these revelatory moments and you don't expect them to dissipate either in the way that Preskayvu sensations do. I had one once where I was on the London Underground and I was particularly tired and I just, I remember wearing my backpack, going up an escalator thinking, this is what life is. Life is just a series of escalators. And it felt exceedingly profound until I turned to the person next to me and tried to tell them that. They looked at me like I was an exceedingly tired person who was having a strange mental experience, which is exactly what I was.
在生活中漫步时，你不会期待有这些顿悟的时刻，同时你也不期望它们像普雷斯凯芙感觉一样逝去。我曾经有过一次，当时我坐在伦敦地铁上，非常疲倦，记得背着我的背包，走上扶梯的时候，我想，这就是生活。生活就是一串串的扶梯。那感觉异常深刻，直到我转向身边的人想要告诉他们，他们用一种奇怪的眼神看着我，好像我是一个非常疲惫、正在经历奇怪心理体验的人，这也正是我当时的状态。
So circling back to Deja Vu, what sort of recent research has really blown you away on on this topic? So it's nice to speculate about what might be going on in the brain when we're having these experiences. But typically that tends to just be speculation.
所以回到“似曾相识”，有哪些最近的研究真的让你惊叹呢？虽然猜测我们在经历这些经历时大脑中发生了什么是很好的，但通常那只不过是猜测而已。
Deja Vu is a lovely kind of, a lovely case study within psychology because you can't ever look at someone and see that they're experiencing Deja Vu. There's no kind of, there's no look on someone's face that tells you that person is having Deja Vu. You have to tend to kind of trust people. You have to try and assume that what they're telling you about their internal experiences correct.
Deja Vu是一种可爱的、心理学上的研究案例，因为你永远不能看出一个人是否正在经历Deja Vu。没有任何一种表情能告诉你一个人正在经历Deja Vu。你必须倾向于相信人们。你必须尝试假设他们告诉你的关于他们内在体验的事情是正确的。
Now, one of the studies that we ran a few years ago in my lab was to try and give people a feeling like Deja Vu to see if we could scan their brains as they were having this analogue of Deja Vu feeling. And if we could kind of find any evidence corroborating our theories for what's going on with a temple open with the frontal lobe as they experienced that feeling.
我们几年前在实验室里进行了一项研究，目的是试图让人们感到类似于“似曾相识”的感觉，以便我们能够在他们产生这种感觉时扫描他们的大脑。如果我们能够找到任何证据来支持我们的理论，说明颞叶打开并与前额叶有关系，那就再好不过了。
And we were able to show that, yeah, when people are experiencing Deja Vu, their frontal cortex, the kind of aero-monitoring fact checking part of the brain really does become more active. So it was a nice piece of evidence that was consistent with how we've begun to think about the experience.
我们能够证明，当人们经历“既视感”时，他们的前额皮质，即大脑的空气监测事实检查部分确实会变得更加活跃。因此，这是一项与我们对这种经历的认识相一致的有力证据。
So how on earth did you artificially create that sensation of Deja Vu? So creating that was a little bit complicated, but I'll go through it and bear with me. There are two components as I've spoken about to a Deja Vu experience.
那么你到底是如何人造出那种似曾相识的感觉的呢？创造那个感觉有点复杂，但是我会解释的，请耐心听。就像我之前说的那样，似曾相识的感觉是由两个部分组成的。
One is a feeling of familiarity and the other is an awareness that that familiarity is wrong or misplaced. So we needed to generate both of those feelings in our experiment. The way we generated familiarity was using a relatively old technique for generating false memories known as the DRM effect.
其中一个是熟悉感，另一个是意识到那种熟悉感是错误或错位的。所以在我们的实验中，我们需要产生这两种感觉。我们产生熟悉感的方式是使用一种相对古老的产生虚假记忆的技术，即DRM效应。
It's named after three psychologists, Deas, Rodiger and McDermott. Using this effect, what you can do is you can give people a list of words that are all related, but leave out one keyword that is super related to all of them. If you do that and then at test you ask people, have you seen this word? Have you seen that word? Have you seen the other word?
它是以三位心理学家 Deas、Rodiger 和 McDermott 命名的。利用这种效应，你可以给人们一组都有关联的单词表，但留下一个与它们所有有关联的关键词。 如果你这样做了，然后在测试时问人们，你看到这个单词了吗？你看到那个单词了吗？你看到其他单词了吗？
If you present them the key related word that you didn't present them at the start, they will nonetheless tell you, yes, I saw that. So to put this in concrete terms, you might give people the list of words that is mattress, pillow, sleep, night. All of those words relate to a keyword that I haven't mentioned. Now at test, I might ask, well, did you see pillow? And they will say yes. Did you see rhinoceros? And they will say no, no, I didn't see that. Did you see bed? And they will say yes, even though you didn't present bed, that wasn't one of the original words I presented. So that's your false familiarity.
如果你向他们展示了与关键词有关的词语，而这些词语在开头并没有展示给他们，他们仍会告诉你，是的，我看到了那个词。因此，具体来说，你可以向人们给出词汇列表，如床垫、枕头、睡眠、晚上。所有这些词语都与一个我没有提到的关键词相关。现在在测试时，我可能会问，你看到枕头了吗？他们会回答是的。你看到犀牛了吗？他们会说没有，我没有看到那个。你看到床了吗？他们会说是的，即使你没有展示床，那也不是我最初展示的单词之一。因此，这就是虚假的熟悉感。
Now how did we get people to recognise that familiarity was indeed false? Well, if we go back to that kind of studying that list of words, we also got people to count the number of words that began with the letter B. As soon as we did that, when we ran through that list of words and they said no, I didn't encounter any words beginning with B.
现在我们如何让人们认识到熟悉感是真的错误的呢？好的，如果我们回到那种研究单词列表的方法，我们还让人们数一数以B开头的单词数量。一旦我们这样做了，当我们遍历单词列表时，他们说没有遇到以B开头的单词，就能马上发现这个问题。
When we go to the memory test and we ask them whether or not they recognise the words, as soon as it got to bed, they felt familiar for it, but they knew that they hadn't seen any words beginning with B. And so that led to the kind of building blocks behind the day's alpha experience. And it was when people experienced those sorts of situations within the brain scanner that we saw the frontal cortex elevating and we were able to match that up with their own reports of something that felt a lot like day's avu.
当我们进行记忆测试并问他们是否识别这些单词时，当这些单词到达他们的脑海之后，他们感到非常熟悉，但他们知道他们没有看到任何以B开头的单词。这导致了当天alpha体验背后的构建块。当人们在脑扫描中经历这些情况时，我们看到前额皮质升高，我们能够将其与他们自己的报告匹配起来，感觉就像经历了那一天。
Why do you think the studying day's avuaries are important? It's an amazing insight into consciousness, I think. One of the beautiful aspects of the experience is that we're able to see how all of the components that normally contribute to a kind of very unified coherent, conscious experience of the world start to break up.
你认为学习日的平均值为什么很重要？我认为这是对意识的惊人洞察。体验中美丽的一面是，我们能够看到通常构成世界的一种非常统一、连贯、有意识的体验的所有组成部分开始瓦解的情况。
So you get this feeling of familiarity that another part, if your brain tells you, hang on a minute, that doesn't seem right. And your brain has to kind of do some on-the-fly problem solving to figure out which course of action it needs to take, trust the sensation of familiarity or trust that it's just something weird that's happening and carry on as usual.
所以你会产生一种熟悉感，但如果你的大脑的另一部分告诉你，等一下，似乎不对劲。你的大脑需要进行一些即兴解决问题的工作，以确定它需要采取哪种行动，是相信熟悉感觉还是相信这只是一些奇怪的事情正在发生，并像平常一样继续下去。
It's very unusual for us to have these experiences where things don't quite seem to make sense within our own brains, within our own experiences of the world. So it gives us a real insight into all that must be going on in our everyday lives for us to have such good coherent experiences of the world normally.
对我们来说，经历那些似乎不完全符合我们头脑中或我们对世界的经验的情况是非常不寻常的。因此，这使我们深刻认识到我们日常生活中必须发生的一切，才能让我们通常有如此好的连贯世界的经验。
It's kind of like when a car or a computer breaks. And I know that's super annoying when it happens. But you start to realize how many bits of machinery there are that keep the experience kind of really good and make that machine or make the car really useful normally because it all works seamlessly. It's only when it breaks that you start realizing the complexities of everything that's involved in making it work.
有点像汽车或计算机出故障时的情况。我知道当这种情况发生时，很烦人。但是你开始意识到有多少机器部件使得整个经历非常好，使得机器或汽车在正常情况下非常有用，因为一切都能平稳运作。只有在出现故障时，你才开始认识到在使它工作的所有复杂因素中所涉及到的一切。
That was Dr. Echiria O'Connor, senior psychology lecturer at the University of St. Andrews, talking us through the neuroscience of Desjard Beaux. Thank you for listening to this episode of Instant Genius brought to you by the team behind the BBC Science Focus magazine, which you can find on sale now in supermarkets and news agents as well as your preferred app store. The Can Of Course also find us online at sciencefocus.com.
那是圣安德鲁斯大学的高级心理学讲师艾奇里亚·奥康纳博士，为我们讲解了德尚·波的神经科学。感谢您收听本期由BBC Science Focus杂志团队带来的“即时天才”节目。您可以在超市、书报摊以及您首选的应用商店找到我们的杂志。当然，您也可以在sciencefocus.com网站找到我们。