THG Podcast: Forgotten Colonies
发布时间 2023-04-25 12:00:05 来源
摘要
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Today the History Guy tells two stories of forgotten colonization. First he tells the story of Popham, a British colony started shortly after Jamestown that disappeared into history. Then he tells the story of the Darien Scheme, a daring plan by Scotland to establish a colony in Panama.
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中英文字稿 
Welcome to the History Guy Podcast. Podcasts dedicated to stories of lesser known historical events told by Lance Geiger, also known as the History Guy on YouTube. I'm Josh, your host, a writer for the channel and eldest son of the History Guy. We tell all kinds of stories about history from the modern era to the ancient past, seeing never know what we're going to talk about next. One thing you can be sure of, it is history that deserves to be remembered. We at the History Guy are also excited to announce a new way to interact with the team and the History Guy himself at Locals.com. Join the History Guy Guild for your one-stop location that chat with other history fans, get updates on the team, and more. You can join for free or pay as little as $5 a month to get access to live chats with the History Guy, books behind the scenes, early access to ad-free videos, and more. Find us at historyguyguild.locals.com. We look forward to seeing you there.
欢迎来到《历史小哥播客》！这是由Lance Geiger（也就是“历史小哥”）在YouTube上讲述的一些不太人知道的历史事件。我是Josh，节目的主持人以及历史小哥的长子，也是这个频道的作者。我们讲述的历史涵盖了从现代到古代的各个时期，你永远不知道下一集我们会讲什么。但有一件事是肯定的，那就是这些历史值得被铭记。此外，我们非常兴奋地宣布，我们和历史小哥在Locals.com上建立了一个全新的互动平台。你可以加入历史小哥工会，与其他历史爱好者交流，获取有关我们团队的最新消息等等。你可以免费加入，也可以每月支付不到5美元的费用，让你获得与历史小哥的在线直播、幕后图书等额外福利。欲了解更多信息，请登陆historyguyguild.locals.com。我们期待在那里见到你。
Today the History Guy tells two stories of forgotten colonization. First, he tells the story of Popham, a British colony started shortly after Jamestown that disappeared into history. Then he tells the story of the Darian scheme, a daring plan by Scotland to establish a colony in Panama. Without further ado, let me introduce the History Guy.
今天，《历史小哥》讲述了两个被遗忘的殖民地的故事。首先，他讲述了波弗姆的故事，这是一座英国殖民地，比詹姆斯敦成立得稍晚，但却已经沉入历史长河。然后，他讲述了达里恩计划的故事，这是苏格兰制定的一个大胆计划，旨在在巴拿马建立殖民地。不再拖延，让我介绍一下这位历史小哥。
The colony of Rono is probably the most famous failed colony in North America, linked to its mysterious disappearance in the long history of wild, fanciful, speculative theories about what happened to it. But it was hardly the only European colony to fail in the Americas. In fact, there were several colonies that were seeking to become the first successful colony on the eastern seaboard that failed relatively quickly due to a variant of challenges. One of those was formed very shortly after the much more famous colony at Jamestown. Its history literally lost for hundreds of years. The colony that was formed on the rocky, irregular coast of Maine that was called Popham colony deserves to be remembered.
洛诺殖民地可能是北美最著名的失败殖民地，因其神秘消失与几百年来有关该发生了什么的疯狂、幻想的推测理论联系在一起。但这并不是唯一在美洲失败的欧洲殖民地。事实上，有几个殖民地试图成为东海岸上最成功的殖民地之一，但由于各种挑战的变异而很快失败了。其中之一是在更著名的詹姆斯镇殖民地之后不久形成的。它的历史在几百年里被彻底遗忘了。那个在缺乏规律的缺口海岸上成立的被称为波福姆殖民地值得被记住。
On April 10th, 1606, King James I of England established by charter the Virginia Company of London and simultaneously the Plymouth Company. The actual 1606 charter did not mention the name of either company and only in a second charter were the two companies specified. But they should divide themselves into two colonies, that one consisting of diverse knights, gentlemen, merchants, and others of our city of London called the first colony, and the other of sundry knights, gentlemen, and others of the cities of Bristol, Exeter, the town of Plymouth and other places called the second colony. It was only later that these companies became known as the Virginia Company of London and the Virginia Company of Plymouth respectfully.
1606年4月10日，英国国王詹姆斯一世以宪章的形式成立了伦敦维吉尼亚公司和普利茅斯联合公司。实际上，1606年的宪章并没有提到这两个公司的名称，只有在第二份宪章中明确指定了这两家公司。但他们应该把自己分成两个殖民地，一个是由伦敦的不同骑士、绅士、商人和其他人组成的第一殖民地，另一个则是由布里斯托尔、艾克塞特、普利茅斯镇和其他地方的不同骑士、绅士和其他人组成的第二殖民地。直到后来，这些公司分别成为伦敦维吉尼亚公司和普利茅斯维吉尼亚公司。
At the time, most of the eastern coastline of what would become the US was called Virginia after the Virgin Queen Elizabeth I, from present day Maine to the Carolinas. The goal of these companies was to establish trading settlements in North America that could enrich the country. Technically, all of the land that the two companies were given and the charters was already claimed by Spain, now where Spain had no presence in the region. Officially, the London Company was allowed to establish a colony of 100 square miles between the latitudes of 31 degrees and 41 degrees north, approximately between Cape Fear and modern North Carolina and Long Island Sound. The Plymouth Company was allowed to establish settlements between 38 degrees and 45 degrees north, a region that encompassed the upper reaches of the Chesapeake Bay to about the modern US Canadian border. The section between 38 degrees and 41 degrees north was granted to both companies, with conditions that the two companies not establish settlements within 100 miles of each other.
当时，现在的缅因州到南卡罗来纳州的大部分东海岸被称为弗吉尼亚，这是为了纪念处女女王伊丽莎白一世。这些公司的目标是在北美建立贸易定居点，以丰富国家。从技术上讲，两个公司所获得的土地和宪章上的所有领土早已被西班牙宣称，但是当时西班牙在该地区没有存在感。正式上，伦敦公司被允许在31度到41度北纬之间建立一个100平方英里的殖民地，大约位于风角和现代的北卡罗来纳州和长岛海峡之间。普利茅斯公司被允许在38度到45度北纬之间建立定居点，该地区包括切萨皮克湾的上游地区，一直到现代的美国和加拿大边境。位于38度到41度北纬之间的部分地区被授予两家公司，但要求两家公司不得在彼此相距100英里内建立定居点。
The Plymouth Company hoped to establish a colony on the shoulders of merchants who would finance a trip for settlers that would then work off the initial investment through trade. The principal members of the company were Sir John Poppum, a prominent English politician who had been speaker of the House of Commons. Attorney General of the Kingdom and was at the time of the company's formation, the Lord Chief Justice of England. In his nephew George Poppum, Sir Fernando Gorgeous, Sir John Gilbert and his brother Raleigh, William Parker and Thomas Hannum. Before the establishment of the company, John Poppum had sent a ship to America to explore it, but the ship was captured by Spaniards and confiscated. Thomas Hannum made a more successful trip later in 1606, which identified the region's favorable for settlement. It was Hannum's journey that convinced the other adventurers to attain the charter for the Plymouth Company.
普利茅斯公司希望借助赞助商资助移民前往新大陆建立殖民地，并通过贸易来偿还初始资金。公司的主要成员有约翰·波普姆爵士，一个杰出的英国政治家，曾任众议院议长、英国最高法院检察长，也是公司成立时的首席大法官。成员还包括他的侄子乔治·波普姆、费尔南多·戈杰斯爵士、约翰·吉尔伯特及其兄弟罗利、威廉·帕克和托马斯·汉纳姆。在成立公司之前，约翰·波普姆曾派一艘船前往美洲探险，但该船被西班牙人抓获并没收。后来的1606年，托马斯·汉纳姆取得了更为成功的旅行，发现该地区适合建立殖民地。汉纳姆的旅行说服了其他冒险家获得普利茅斯公司的特许状。
On May 31, 1607, about a month after the successful landing of settlers at Jamestown, 120 colonists set off from Plymouth, England in two ships. There were two primary goals of the initial colony, to trade with the natives and to prove that the local forests could be used for building ships.
1607年5月31日，在詹姆斯镇居民成功着陆大约一个月后，120名殖民者乘坐两艘船从英国普利茅斯出发。最初殖民地的两个主要目标是与当地土著人进行贸易，并证明当地森林可以用于建造船只。
Several earlier trips had already reached New England at that point. First was the 1602 voyage of Bartholomew Gossnold, who had named Cape Cod and attempted to establish a settlement there, but had instead returned to England. More important was the journey of George Waymouth, who had sailed to Maine in 1605. Waymouth had, apparently with a backing and pre-planning of his sponsors, which included Fernando Gorgeous, also an investor in the Plymouth Company, kidnapped five natives and brought them back to England. The natives later told the Frenchman that they believed the English had killed those men.
在那时，已有几次早期的航行抵达了新英格兰地区。首先是1602年巴托洛缪·戈斯诺尔德的航行，他命名了海角码头并试图在那里建立定居点，但最终回到了英国。更重要的是乔治·韦茅斯的旅程，他在1605年航行至缅因州。韦茅斯显然在赞助商的支持和预先计划下行动，其中包括菲尔南多·戈杰斯，他也是普利茅斯公司的投资者，他绑架了五名土著居民并带回英国。这些土著居民后来告诉法国人，他们认为英国人杀了那些人。
The two ships that sailed were the gift of God, kept and by George Popham, who had been named President of the colony, and the Mary and John, kept and by second and command Rolly Gilbert. They carried with them one of the kidnapped Native Americans, who they intended to return. In August, they returned the kidnapped man to the shore and then settled at a place near the Sagadahok River, now known as the Kinneback, on August 13. Actually, the gift of God arrived first while the Mary and John overshot the place and had to have a boat sent to help them in a few days later.
这两艘船是上帝的恩赐，由乔治·波弗姆担任殖民地总统的船和助手罗利·吉尔伯特所带领的玛丽与约翰号。他们携带着一位被绑架的土著美洲人，目的是归还他。在八月份，他们把被绑架的人送回岸边，并于8月13日在萨加达霍克河附近的一个地方安家落户，现在这个地方被称为金纳贝克。实际上，恩赐船先到了，而玛丽和约翰号却错过了目的地，不得不在几天后派船前来帮助他们。
There they delivered a sermon and read out the patent and other laws. Afterwards they began work on a setting up a colony by digging a well, building a stone house, a few huts made of logs and a stockade, which they proudly dubbed Fort St. George, located near the small modern town of Fipsburg.
在那里，他们进行了布道，并宣读了专利和其他法律。随后，他们开始建立一个殖民地，挖掘水井、建造石屋、几个用原木建造的小屋和一座围墙。这个殖民地非常自豪地被称为圣乔治堡，位于现代小镇菲普斯堡附近。
However, they almost immediately ran into problems. Though Waymouth's initial journey had gone up with the goal of finding friendly natives, kidnapping their people turned the natives against Europeans and specifically against the English. They refused to provide the colonists with any supply of maize or other food. Another problem arose between the two leaders of the colony. Fernando Gorgeous described the colony president, George Papamus, timmerously fearful to a fan. While second and command Rolly Gilbert was desirous of supremacy and rule, a loose life, prompt to sensuality, little zeal in religion, humorous, headstrong, and of small judgment and experience. While in other ways, valiant enough. Though Gorgeous's opinions smacked somewhat of bias, one of the issues may have been age. Papamus in his 50s, while Gilbert was only 25.
然而，他们几乎立即遇到了问题。尽管韦茅斯的最初旅程的目标是寻找友好的土著居民，但绑架了他们的人后，土著对欧洲人，特别是英国人反感。他们拒绝向殖民者提供任何玉米或其他食物的供应。另一个问题出现在殖民地的两个领袖之间。费尔南多·高奇描述了殖民地总统乔治·帕帕木斯是一个胆怯的人，而指挥官罗里·吉尔伯特则渴望权力和统治，生活随意，容易沉迷于肉欲，对宗教缺乏热忱，幽默，固执，判断力和经验都比较弱。尽管高奇的意见有点带有偏见，其中一个问题可能是年龄问题。帕帕木斯已经50多岁了，而吉尔伯特只有25岁。
180 years after the establishment of the colony, a map was rediscovered that had been stolen in England by a spy and brought to the Spanish, as evidence of what the English were doing on land that the Spanish already claimed. The map was drawn on October 8, 1607 and drawn by the colonist John Hunt, and it is a detailed and scaled map of the colony it was then planned. During August and September, the colonists had been hard at work, turning Fort St. George into a proper star fort to be defended by nine cannons. His drawing shows 18 buildings, including Gilbert's house, chapel, a storehouse, a coupe ridge, and a guard house. However, it's unclear how much of the plan was actually completed.
建立殖民地180年后，一张被英国间谍盗取并带给西班牙人的地图被重新发现，作为英国人在西班牙已经宣称的土地上的活动证据。这张地图是由殖民者约翰·亨特于1607年10月8日绘制的，它详细且比例尺的呈现了当时规划的殖民地。在8月和9月期间，殖民者们努力将圣乔治堡变成一座由9门大炮保卫的正式星形要塞。他的图纸显示有18栋建筑，包括吉尔伯特的房子、小教堂、仓库、库房和守卫。然而，目前还不清楚实际完成了多少计划。
On October 6, the Mary and John was sent back to England to report their success. It seems that the gift of God too was expected to be sent away, but was kept nearby when the colony got word that a French force would come and be siege them. The French never appeared. The colonists had been very optimistic about the colony, having heard that there are nutmakes, mace, and cinnamon, as well as more trade goods in the area from the local Abanaki people. Popham also heard that there was some large body of water only a few days west. This he thought was likely the Pacific Ocean and the route to China, which unquestionably cannot be far from these parts. There was no word of precious metals like gold or silver, which the English had hoped to far.
10月6日，玛丽和约翰被派回英国汇报他们的成功。天赐的礼物似乎也被期待着被送走，但当殖民地听说法国军队将来围攻他们时，这个礼物被保留在附近。法国人从未出现。殖民者非常看好殖民地，因为他们从当地的阿巴纳基人那里听说该地区有坚果、肉豆蔻、肉桂等商品进行交易。波姆还听说，距离几天路程以西有一个大的水域。他认为很可能是太平洋和通往中国的路线，毫无疑问离这些地方不远。没有传来英国人所希望的珍贵金属，如黄金和银。
The colonists had counted on receiving food from the locals, and when they were refused, they were forced to consider a new plan for survival. They arrived too late to plant food and because sustained the colony and did not carry enough supplies to last all 120 of the colonists through the winter. On December 5, the gift of God left the colony with most of the colonists, leaving 45 behind with enough stores to last them until spring. Both Popham and Gilbert remained with the colony. The winter was brutally cold and the Kennebick froze over completely, according to one colonist it proved so extremely unseasonable and frosty as no book could stir upon any business.
殖民者原本指望当地居民提供食物，但遭到拒绝，他们不得不开始考虑新的生存计划。由于来晚了没能种植食物，而且携带的储备物资不足以供给全部120名殖民者度过整个冬天。12月5日，上天的恩赐离开了大部分的殖民地，只有45人留了下来，他们有足够的存粮度过春季。波法姆和吉尔伯特都留在了殖民地。冬天异常寒冷，肯伯克河完全结冰，据一个殖民者称，这冬天异常得不可想象，气温非常低，让人无法进行任何业务。
The gift of God left with enough stores to support a six-week journey, but apparently the stores were small enough that they were given instructions to sell what trading goods they had, mass made from local timber, cable and furniture, and asores if necessary.
神的馈赠留给了足够支持六周旅程的储备，但显然储备很小，以至于他们被指示销售他们拥有的贸易商品，这些商品由当地的木材、电缆和家具制成，必要时还要出售储备。
Took about 47 days at sea to reach England, and the men aboard had apparently eaten their way through all of the provisions by the time they reached the asores.
大约需要47天的航程才能抵达英国，船上的人显然在到达亚速尔群岛时已经把所有的供应品都吃光了。
At least three men seemed to have died on the journey before they reached England in March of 1608.
在1608年3月抵达英国之前，至少有三名男子在旅途中死亡。
Back at the colony, the men there were having their own troubles.
在殖民地里，那里的人们也在遇到自己的麻烦。
They had, according to one colonist, built 50 houses, likely two larger number and completed the fort.
据一名殖民者称，他们已经建造了50所房屋，可能是更多，还完成了堡垒。
The most important work they accomplished was the completion of a ship, a pretty pinnance of about some 30 tonne which they called Virginia.
他们完成的最重要的工作是建造了一艘船，一艘漂亮的游艇，约重30吨，他们称之为弗吉尼亚号。
A pinnance, also called a pinnacle, is according to one expert perhaps the most confusing of all the early 17th century types of vessels.
一种被称为平尼克尔（pinnance）或尖船的船只，在早期17世纪的船舶类型中，似乎是最容易混淆的一种，据一位专家所说。
They varied widely in size, as they were named more for use than type.
它们的大小差异很大，因为它们更多地根据用途而非类型进行命名。
It could be small enough to be carried aboard a ship or as large as 50 tons.
它可以小到可以携带到船上，也可以大到有50吨重。意思是说它的大小可以有很大的差别，从非常小的到相当大的都有可能。
The Virginia was about 50-60 long, about the middle size for a pinnance.
“Virginia号”大约有50-60英尺长，是一个猎艇的中等大小。
The advantage of the small ship was that it could be rigged in different ways for different jobs and could be used for coastal sailing and scouting as wells cross Atlantic travels.
小型船只的优势在于能够通过不同的装配方式用于不同的工作，既可以用于沿海航行和侦察，也可以用于横跨大西洋旅行。
The Virginia is thought to be the very first English-built ocean-going vessel ever built in the New World.
弗吉尼亚号被认为是在新大陆建造的第一艘英国远洋船。
The first, in a long tradition of shipbuilding in the region, centered it nearby Bath, Maine.
这是该地区悠久造船传统中的第一个，位于缅因州附近的巴斯市。
The began trade for fur with the Native Americans, but some kind of misunderstanding at one event led to the discharge of a cannon and the burning of some buildings.
他们开始与美洲原住民进行毛皮贸易，但是在某次事件中出现了误解，导致一门大炮的射击和一些建筑物的燃烧。
The ship and records say that the storehouse was burned however archaeological investigation shows that it wasn't, but that several other buildings were.
船舶和纪录显示仓库被烧毁，但考古调查显示实际上仓库没有被烧，但其他几个建筑物却被烧了。
The winter continued to be harsh when colonists wrote that there was thunder, lightning, rain, frost, snow, all in abundance.
当殖民者写下他们经历了溪雨同时出现的、冰雹和大雪等丰富的气候时，严寒的冬季仍在延续。
The last continuing in January of 1608.
最后一次持续到1608年1月。
这句话的意思是“持续”的某个事件在1608年1月结束了。由于上下文不明确，我们无法确定这个事件具体是什么，例如是一场战争、一次会议、一场比赛等等。
Meanwhile other events were deciding the fate of the colony.
与此同时，其他事件正在决定殖民地的命运。
In England, John Popham had died, depriving the company of its greatest backer.
在英格兰，约翰·波弗姆去世了，使得公司失去了最重要的支持者。这个句子的意思是，约翰·波弗姆是一个非常重要的支持者，在他去世后，公司的财政和发展受到了影响。
George Popham died on February 5th at the colony, in unknown circumstances, making Gilbert president.
乔治·波班于2月5日在殖民地去世，死因不明，让吉尔伯特成为了总统。
It was under Gilbert that the Virginia was completed.
是在吉尔伯特的领导下，弗吉尼亚号得以完工。
In May of 1608, a supply ship brought news of John Popham's death.
1608年5月，一艘补给船带来了约翰·波法姆死亡的消息。这句话的意思是，1608年5月，一艘运送物资的船只带来了约翰·波法姆去世的消息。
In July, Raleigh Gilbert's brother, another backer died in London.
七月，雷利·吉尔伯特的另一个支持者——他的兄弟在伦敦去世了。这意味着雷利的支持者数量减少，对他的事业带来了一定的影响。
The Marriott John returned to Popham colony in September with the news.
万豪酒店的约翰在九月份带着消息回到波法姆殖民地。该消息的内容不详。
Raleigh was his brother's heir and was needed back in England to settle the estate.
翻译：Raleigh是他弟弟的继承人，需要回英国处理遗产事务。
意思：这句话简单说明了Raleigh是某人的弟弟，他的弟弟已经去世，留下了遗产需要处理。作为他的继承人，Raleigh需要回到英国处理这些事务。这句话也表明了Raleigh是家族中的一个重要成员，并且已经准备好履行他的义务，管理他的家族历史遗产。
The colony had in that time been somewhat successful, all things in good forwardness, and many comes afers obtained from the Indians by way of trade.
在那段时间，这个殖民地有了一些成功，一切都有良好的发展趋势，并且通过贸易获得了很多来自印第安人的物品。
The winter, though it had been harsh, had not actually killed many of the colonists.
尽管这个冬天很严寒，但实际上并没有导致许多殖民者死亡。
Explanation:
这个句子在描述过去的事情，指出尽管这个冬天很冷，但并没有导致大量殖民者死亡。易读性较高。
Popham is the only certain death, although other reports suggested that Native Americans had killed eleven in the captain of the Marriott John wrote that Popham and some other were dead.
Popham是唯一确定死亡的，尽管其他报道称印第安人杀死了11人，但Marriott John船长写道Popham和其他一些人已经死了。
Certainly, the death toll was considerably less than that experience at Jamestown for the south.
当然，在南方经历的詹姆斯敦死亡人数相比之下，这次死亡人数要小得多。
Losing Gilbert was apparently the last straw for the colony, however.
然而，失去Gilbert显然是殖民地最后的压垮骆驼。
No other colonists stood replacement.
没有其他殖民者可以替代。
Without leadership and with the fear that all other winters would prove like the first, the colonists decided to abandon the fort.
由于缺乏领导者且害怕所有未来的冬天都像第一次一样，殖民者们决定放弃要塞。
They re-rigged Virginia into parted, with one colonist writing that this was the end of that northern colony upon the river.
他们重新修建了弗吉尼亚，把它分成了两个部分。一位殖民者写道，这标志着这个位于河边的北方殖民地的终结。
The little pinnacle would however go on to have its own adventures.
这个小尖塔会有它自己的冒险故事。
After crossing the Atlantic with the Popham colonists, it returned to the Americas with a third subplot mission to Jamestown in 1609.
在和波费姆殖民者穿越大西洋后，它又在1609年回到美洲，以第三个情节任务前往詹姆斯敦。
The largest fleet England has ever amassed in the west, according to the leader of the fleet, Christopher Newport.
这是英格兰有史以来在西方海域集结的最大舰队，根据舰队领袖Christopher Newport所说。
The fleet ran into a tempest in July, now believed to be a hurricane, and the largest ship, the sea venture, was wrecked in Bermuda.
该船队在七月遭遇了一场风暴，现在被认为是一场飓风，最大的船只“海冒险号”在百慕大沉没。
The Virginia, however, survived, apparently having missed the hurricane and reached Jamestown in October.
弗吉尼亚号船幸免于难，显然是躲过了飓风，在10月份到达詹姆斯敦。意思是弗吉尼亚号在飓风中幸存了下来，并在10月到达了詹姆斯敦。
What happened to the ship afterwards is unknown.
该船之后发生了什么尚不得而知。
The Popham colony seems to have been relatively unique among European colonies in North America in that it didn't suffer mass death.
波法姆殖民地似乎相对于北美其他欧洲殖民地而言，不会遭受大规模死亡的惨剧，这是相对独特的。
Earlier French settlement in St. Croix lost nearly half of its population, and nearly half the pilgrims that landed at planet colony in 1620 didn't make it through the first winter.
早期法国在圣克洛伊克的定居地失去了将近一半的人口，而1620年在行星殖民地登陆的朝圣者也有将近一半没有熬过第一个冬天。这段话意思是在描述过去的历史事件中，一些定居或移民活动的人口流失率较高。
Unlike Jamestown, the Popham colony seems to have been at least moderately successful, acquiring trade goods that could be sold back in England.
与詹姆斯敦不同，波翰殖民地似乎至少是适度成功的，获得了可在英格兰销售的贸易商品。
Although it only lasted for 14 months, it definitely proved the value of New World forests, there were lessons learned that were useful in future journeys, and it was remarkable in the creation of the Virginia, beginning of America's shipbuilding traditions.
尽管仅持续了14个月，但它确实证明了新世界森林的价值，使未来航行中的教训得到了有益的经验，同时也在建立弗吉尼亚州和美国造船传统方面具有非凡的成就。
The Plymouth Company fell into disuse until it was reorganized and used to support New England settlements later, like the Plymouth colony.
柏茅斯公司陷入了闲置的状态，直到它被重新组织并用于为晚期新英格兰定居地提供支持，比如普利茅斯殖民地。
Remarkably though, Popham colony was nearly entirely forgotten until documents were rediscovered in the latter 19th century. It caused quite a stir among historians, who by that point considered it well established that Plymouth colony was the first in New England, going to show us that no matter what we think about history, there's always more history to discover, but deserves to be remembered.
然而令人惊讶的是，波凡殖民地直到19世纪后期才被重新发现，并几乎被完全遗忘。这在历史学家中引起了轩然大波，因为他们当时普遍认为普利茅斯殖民地是新英格兰第一个殖民地，这证明了无论我们对历史有何看法，总会有更多的历史值得发掘，而波凡殖民地是值得铭记的一部分。
Now's the part of the episode where we get to chat with the history guy, a little bit about what we just heard, what we're going to hear, and some behind the scenes stuff he only gets here about on the podcast.
现在是这一集的部分，我们有机会与历史男子闲聊一下，聊一聊我们所听到的内容，即将要听到的内容以及一些幕后材料，这些材料只有在播客节目中他才能了解到。
So the Popham colony is a really interesting story, and I think one of the cool things about it is that it's got connections to Jamestown, its company was simultaneous, they were in these similar locations, and it was completely forgotten. We're not just talking lost. Forgotten, absolutely. Yeah, until someone dug up a note, you know, that's when you talk about forgotten history, it's just amazing when history is discovered like that.
所以Popham殖民地是一个非常有趣的故事，而且我认为其中一个有趣的事情是它与詹姆斯敦有联系，这两个公司同时存在，并且它们位于相似的位置，但却完全被遗忘了。我们不仅仅是说失落了，而是被完全忘记了。是的，直到有人挖掘出一张纸条，你知道当我们谈论被遗忘的历史时，发现历史就像是一种惊奇的力量。
And Popham, it sounds like it honestly was in many ways more successful than the other colonies that were so much better known. And they just had a series of deaths at the wrong time of supporters and leaders, and they just kind of left. And it's so funny, you know, that at that point we just forgot. And now they're doing archaeology there now, and finding where the colony was. So it's a fascinating story, but it's even more fascinating by the idea that this is something that we just didn't know happened for decades. And it's if we've been dropped from the human experience, and we go find that, wow. It's amazing that stuff like that can happen. And I will continue to discover things that, you know, stuff that we thought that we didn't think happened.
波法姆在许多方面，看起来比那些更知名的其他殖民地更成功。他们只不过在支持者和领导者意外地相继去世，然后就离开了。有趣的是，我们当时竟然忘记了他们。现在他们正在进行考古学研究，发现了那个殖民地的位置。这是一个引人入胜的故事，但更引人入胜的是这是我们几十年来完全不知道发生的事情。如果我们被从人类经验中剔除，然后去探寻那个地方，那真是令人惊叹。令人惊讶的是，像这样的事情仍然会发生，我们仍然会发现一些我们认为不可能发生的事情。
So exciting for a historian to think that there's history out there that's been lost that might be rediscovered, and I'll be able to, you know, get this whole richer understanding of the human experience. So I mean, that makes it just a really compelling story.
对历史学家来说，能想到还有失落的历史可能被重新发现，让人感到非常兴奋。这将使我能够更全面地了解人类经历，因此这就是一个非常引人入胜的故事。
And you know, we've talked, we've prefer forgotten history on the history guide, but you know, if you're talking about Rona, which is already a problem, we don't know what happened to the Rona colony, right? Yeah. But, but I mean, lots of people have talked about that. And when you find something that like, gosh, you know, we didn't even know that happened, that's fun. And it's interesting, and it's people who deserve to be remembered who were almost forgotten.
你知道，我们已经谈过了，我们更喜欢忘记历史指南上的历史，但你知道，如果你谈论罗纳，那已经是一个问题了，我们不知道罗纳殖民地发生了什么，对吧？是的。但是，很多人都谈论过这件事。当你发现了一些事情，比如，天啊，我们甚至都不知道发生了什么，那就很有趣了，也很有趣，值得被记住的人们，几乎被遗忘。
Yeah. It's a great part of this job. You know, we know a lot about history, of course, because that's what we spend our days doing. But one of the things is that we're constantly learning new things. Oh, it's every episode, you find out things, you know, and that's the fun part really kind of is to pick through the, you know, the few pieces that you're like, wow, I didn't know this and be able to put those in because you know, you're releasing a little bit of a treasure where someone else that's listening is going to say, wow, I didn't know that either. Yeah. It's wonderful to be able to do these kinds of stories.
是的，这份工作非常棒。当然，我们了解很多历史，因为这是我们每天所从事的。但其中一个好处是我们不断地在学习新事物。每集节目都会让你发现一些新事物，这是最有趣的部分，你可以拣选那些你不知道的几个片段，然后将它们放入节目中，在为他人揭示一个小小宝藏的同时，也让自己惊讶：哇，我也不知道这个！这样的故事真的很棒。
And this one, it really is an amazing story because of how successful the colony seemed to be. And I think, I mean, it's a good example of just how, you know, how tenuous those connections really were, because this is one where, I mean, honestly, in some ways, more things went right than almost anywhere else. And gosh, James, you know, how it was a disaster in some ways.
这个故事真的很惊人，因为殖民地看起来非常成功。我认为，这是一个很好的例子，向我们展示了连接是多么脆弱的，因为在这个例子中，说实话，比其他地方发生事情的更多。虽然在某些方面，詹姆斯是个灾难。
And yet they just kept fighting to keep it there. And this one, they had relatively few deaths, even compared to, you know, the planet colony in almost the same location. Right? Hardly not very far away compared to most of the colonies. And yet still, it failed and was relegated to complete obscurity at the point where no one even remembered it.
但他们还是一直在努力保持那里。而且这个地方相对来说死亡人数也很少，即使与位于几乎相同位置的行星殖民地相比。对吧？与大多数殖民地相比，它并不远。但是，它仍然失败了，并被降至完全的默默无闻，甚至没有人记得了它。
It's hard to imagine you put that much into it. And then one day it's like, ah, it's what, what leave? We're done. We're done. We're done about, go back. It's that, that, that importance of leadership. And it, I mean, that was always true at any of these colonies you had to have a good leader.
很难想象你投入了那么多精力。然后有一天，就像是，“啊，这是什么，什么离开？”我们做完了。我们完了。我们要回去了。这就是领导力的重要性。而且，我是说，在这些殖民地中任何时候都需要一个好的领导者，这一点始终如一。
But it's amazing that, you know, they had a couple of guys and essentially, you know, the leader in, yeah, pop them dies. And then they, they use a couple of important backers.
但令人惊讶的是，他们只有几个人，而且基本上是领袖把他们推上了前线，没想到领袖去世了。然后他们利用了几个重要的支持者。
And there's just, well, and the guy who's the leader has to go back because his dad died. And then you put it all together and they have to, you know, they just said there's no one here that can, can lead this colony. And no one stepped up and it's, it's, it's incredible because if someone had, you know, someone had, if this had been a successful colony, which it seems to have, I mean, there was always a struggle to make these, all the colonies struggle to make money.
这里发生了这样的事情，领袖必须返回，因为他的父亲已经去世了。然后把所有的事情都放在一起，他们必须找到一个人来领导这个殖民地。然而没有人站出来，这是令人难以置信的，因为如果有人站出来，这个殖民地就有可能成功。尽管各个殖民地都在苦苦挣扎，但它似乎是一个成功的殖民地。
In most cases, I mean, you know, Jamestown was not a huge financial success for the most part for the people who supported the company. It was always, there was always a fight on that. But this one seems to be more successful on that front initially than, than Jamestown or honestly, Plymouth or other, or quite a few other colonies that tried that kind of thing.
我想说的是，在大多数情况下，詹姆斯敦对于支持公司的人来说并没有取得巨大的经济成功。这一点总是存在争议。但是这次的情况似乎在这方面的初期成功要比詹姆斯敦、布利茅斯特或其它许多试图做同样事情的殖民地要好很多。
And just financially as well, they didn't have the mass death. And so it seems like this could have, you know, eventually, and, you know, we could, this could be the country of pop them, you know, and something we have a, we have a state called pop them or something. And Thanksgiving, we celebrated around, you know, what, something that happened to pop them as a part of the town.
从财务角度来说，他们没有大规模的死亡，这似乎表明这个国家最终可能成为一个叫做Pop Them的国家，我们可能会在周围庆祝感恩节时提及它，那是该镇的一部分发生了什么事情。
Oh, I mean, pop them, it's still been going strong when the, when the Pumacalm are right, you wonder, you know, if that would have been to help support the Pumacalm. So there's a lot of what if there, but it's just, and you wonder, you know, are there more? Yeah. Are there other colonies that went out there that didn't have, you know, even as good a documentation as this one?
哦，我的意思是，如果它们被吃掉了，它们仍然会强壮，当Pumacalm正确时，你会想知道，是否会有助于支持Pumacalm。所以有很多如果，但你会想知道，还有更多吗？是的。还有其他殖民地去了那里，没有像这一个一样好的文献记录吗？
So the, the Vinland saga was very similar to you. And that it was, it was really lost for a very long time. No one knew about that at all. It was kind of rediscovered some of the sagas and realized, you know, so how many, you know, really what was the first colony in the Americas? That's a long discussion. It's always been a long argument. And the, you know, that's what you'd say about, you know, Columbus, he's the one who stayed. Yeah, we remember him. He might have been the first one to bump in. It might not have known for sure where he was, but I mean, he stayed. And so we remember him.
所以，维京地皮(Vinland)的传说与您的经历非常相似。长期以来，这个传说一直被遗忘，无人知晓。直到重新发现相关史诗，我们才开始了解有关在美洲的首个殖民地是什么以及到底有多少个。这是一个非常长的讨论，也一直是争论不休的话题。关于哥伦布，我们所描述的也是他，他是那个留了下来的人，他可能是第一个到达的人，但并不确定他当时的位置，但我们依然记得他。
And you wonder how many, you know, did amazing things and they didn't stay. And so we, you know, we forgot about it. Well, so often it relies on someone writing something down, but also having the right people write something. Yeah, write something else so that they hang onto it. Because you know, with pop them here, clearly, I'm part of the issue was that it wasn't the right people writing it down is that these were fairly important people for their time.
你会想知道有多少人做了惊人的事情而并没有留下来。所以我们就忘记了这些人。往往需要有人记录下来，而且需要正确的人来记录。他们需要写下其他的东西来保留这些历史。因为，很显然，对于流行文化，问题的一部分是没有正确的人来记录这些历史，而这些历史对于当时的人来说是非常重要的。
But ultimately, you know, a lot of those people who are fairly prominent in their time, fade into obscurity. That's true. Well, and here the prominent supporters who made me could have made a difference of the ones who, you know, passed away at the wrong time. And so they're not, they're not, you know, continuing to push it or talk about it or try to drum up support. And then that's just it. And then we literally just forget about it. Crazy.
但最终，你知道，很多那个时代相当知名的人，最后都会黯然失色。这是真的。嗯，这里有一些支持者原本可能对我有所帮助，但他们走得时机不对。所以他们没有继续推动或谈论或者尝试振奋人心。然后，我们就真的忘记了。太疯狂了。
And it's still, there were a lot of difficulties at this colony. And this was a common choice by European nations when they went all over the place. They go find a place and they're like, all right, we're going to take some people home to like, Christianize them or civilize them. Yeah. So they'll be able to bring them back. Yeah, they'll be able to put the start and that ended up causing poor relations with the Native Americans.
在这个殖民地仍然存在很多困难。当欧洲国家四处探索时，这是他们经常选择的方式。他们会找到一个地方，然后带回一些人来“基督教化”或“文明化”他们。他们会带他们回去，然后开始推广。这最终导致与美国原住民之间的关系不佳。
Exactly. Apparently, if you show up and grab five of their people and just sell away with them so that they think you've murdered them, but you're on the wrong side. And they remembered very clearly. I think it's, you know, they knew who the French were and then you knew who the British were. And I think, all right, the French did not come and could not bar people, but the British did. Not that the, not that the French are, you know, completely innocent.
没错。显然，如果你出现并抓走五个他们的人，然后卖掉他们，让他们认为你谋杀了他们，但你却站在错误的一边。他们记得得很清楚。我想，你知道谁是法国人，谁是英国人。我认为，好吧，法国人不能来拦截人，但英国人可以。并不是说法国人是完全无罪的。
Yeah, but the French actually very much treated differently with the indigenous peoples and that, and that I think that made a difference. I think there was a long time when actually the natives were more likely to treat with the French than with the British. And then there was about whether they're more likely to treat with the British than the Americans. And then the British weren't coming there to take things and the Americans weren't going to try to take it.
是的，但实际上法国人对待土著人的方式非常不同，我认为这是有所区别的。实际上有很长一段时间，土著人更愿意与法国人打交道而不是英国人。之后就是关于他们更可能与英国人打交道而不是美国人之间的问题。英国人不是去那里拿东西，美国人也不会试图拿走它。
And, you know, it's, I mean, the connection between the Old World and the news, one of the most important events in human history. Absolutely. But it certainly had enormous costs for this thing that we called the New World.
你知道的，这是人类历史上最重要的事件之一，即古老世界和新闻之间的联系。当然，这对我们所称的新世界而言，代价是巨大的。
And, you know, starting with five of their, you know, imagine there's just five of your friends. Imagine if the town next door wants to learn about you. And so they just drive out to the edge of town and grab five dudes drive away with them. Totally against their will. No, they don't leave a message. They don't tell you what they're doing.
你知道吗，假设有五个朋友，那么就以他们为例。假设隔壁的城镇想了解你们，所以他们开车到镇外，抓住五个人然后带走了，完全不顾他们的意愿。他们没有留下任何信息，也没有告诉你们他们在做什么。
I think that because these days, you know, we would think, most people I think would be like, oh, well, I can understand whether they could matter. If we did that, it's quite clear that the Europeans of the time didn't really consider that. They weren't really thinking, oh, well, this need to our relationship. I'm quite sure that they thought when they were kidnapping these people to Christianize them, that they were improving their souls and sending them off to heaven and asking them from savagery or something. And that's, that's, I mean, those, those were typical views of the time. And it's wrong.
我认为，现在大多数人的想法都是，我们认为所考虑的是，我能理解他们是否重要。如果我们这样做，很明显当时的欧洲人并没有真正考虑这一点。他们并没有想到这种关系的必要性。我非常确定，当他们绑架这些人去传教时，他们认为他们在改善他们的灵魂，让他们上天堂，并使他们远离野蛮行为。这是那个时代的典型观点。但这是错误的。
And they came to, came back to Biden. You know, then the native person thought about kidnapping. I mean, that's also true. It's not like they were innocent of that. But I mean, if you want to talk a true clash of cultures, especially since these, you know, these are, you know, people just showing up and said, okay, I'm going to mumble live here now.
他们回到拜登那里，你知道的，当地人开始考虑绑架。我的意思是，这也是真的。并不是说他们对此毫不知情。但是，如果你想谈论真正的文化冲突，特别是因为这些人只是突然出现并说：“好的，我现在要在这里生活了。”
Yeah.
好的。
Yeah. Well, very, very, very different cultures didn't. I, but you understand why they were maybe, like, I don't think we want you guys around. You kidnapped people. All right. And see, product.
是的。不同的文化之间有非常非常大的不同。你能理解他们为什么可能会说：“我不认为我们想把你们这些人留在附近。”因为你们曾经绑架过人。好了，现在看看产品吧。
And how much difference those, you know, if they'd had a peaceful relationship, it would have been. I mean, you know, that's where Thanksgiving really came from. Yeah, that was a peaceful coexistence, it's a time. Yeah, ultimately, I mean, most of those relationships sourd somewhat because, I mean, the Europeans wanted to expand. They're living in that same land. Yeah. And, you know, there's only so much room. Yeah. And so that, which is where it goes. But pop-up ultimately is able to, you know, even despite initial bad, bad relations with the, with the local tribes, they did okay. And they were able to do trading with them. And it's, it's interesting. It's interesting.
如果他们能够拥有和平关系，那些人们之间会有多大的差异，你知道的。我的意思是，你知道，感恩节就是从那里来的。是的，那是和平共存的时期。最终，大多数关系都有些恶化，因为欧洲人想要扩展。他们住在同一块土地上。是的，你知道，土地不够用。它就这样走了。但是，波普尔最终能够克服与当地部落最初的不良关系，做得还可以。他们能够与他们进行贸易。这很有趣。很有意思。
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's, as a colony, it's, I mean, it's a lot, like a lot of other colonies. It's amazing. Some of the things they did, but what's still most amazing about it is that when they just backed up and left, everybody forgot that they were ever there. Just done. They just walked away.
是的，我的意思是，作为一个殖民地，它和其他殖民地很相似。令人惊叹的是他们所做的一些事情，但最令人惊叹的是他们仅仅后撤，所有人都忘记了他们曾经在那里。就这样，他们走了。
And it's, you do wonder because, you know, if we didn't know anything about it, it's awfully hard to just stumble upon this kind of archeological size. There's just so much. And how do you understand what it is? Yeah. And you don't have any kind of, well, we have that problem all the time. It's a problem with north sites, we find in the, you know, in Canada and stuff, is that we still just don't know enough. There's nothing written, except for, you know, the sagas. And the sagas are somewhat ambiguous. Yeah. And we tend to be stories.
这段话的意思是，如果我们对这个事物毫不了解，那么很难碰巧发现这样的考古规模。有太多的信息，我们该如何理解这个事物？并且我们没有任何可靠的来源去解释它。这是我们在加拿大等地的北方遗址中经常遇到的问题，我们仍然缺乏足够的知识。除了神话故事，没有其他文字可供参考，而这些故事又往往含义模糊，只是一些故事而已。
And so out of, but I mean, it's also extraordinary to think how much record is the land rounding that? Seriously. Yeah, letters or whatever. Because I mean, there's so much history. And so you've got, I mean, somewhere in a library, somewhere is something that was amazing at the time, that's completely forgotten. And that someone hasn't, you know, it's sitting in the box someplace and someone hasn't given it the attention it maybe deserves, but the problem is there's just so much of it.
这么说吧，想一想这片土地所见证的历史记录有多少，真是不可思议呢！可能是书信之类的东西，毕竟有那么多的历史。有些人可能在图书馆里发掘出了某些不起眼的东西，但是当时曾经是不可思议的。现在可能已经被人遗忘，被扔在了某个角落，没有得到应有的重视，但问题是这样的东西实在是太多了。
And that's, you know, that's before we start talking about the many, many documents that were burned or lost or otherwise have been, you know, are sitting in an attic someplace with no one to even know they're there. I, I think pop-up is such a cool story. I think it's interesting is the first place that England, that English built a ship. And it's a real ship, not just a, not just a, not just a ship. Yeah, it's a real, not just a ship. Yeah, it's a real, not just a ship. It's a multiple times, yeah, it's amazing, a little vessel. And especially in a place that tended, it ended up being just the center of shipbuilding, you'll throw the history.
这就是，你知道的，在我们开始谈论那些被烧毁、丢失或被遗忘在某个阁楼上的许多许多文件之前。我认为“浮出水面”是一个很酷的故事。我认为有趣的是，这是英国建造一艘船的第一站。而它是一艘真正的船，不仅仅是一艘船。它是一艘重复出现的小船，尤其是在一个倾向于成为造船中心的地方，这个历史可以追溯很久。
And the, you know, the first place that they built, when there's, there's just a great poetic justice there. It's not like pop-up became a, you know, a shipbuilding works. No. But I can't imagine, I mean, it's hard to imagine today that you show up on the shore and with nothing but an axe, you know, turn the forest into a sailing vessel that can sail back and forth.
在那里建造第一艘船的地方，有一种伟大的诗意正义。这并不像“弹出式”成为造船厂。我无法想象，今天你会在海岸边出现，只带着一把斧头，把森林变成一艘可以往返航行的船只。
It's, I mean, if we send, if, if, if Elon Musk sends somebody to Mars, are they going to be able to pick up pieces of Mars and paint a field of buildings and, they can send back here. That'll be something to see. That's right. That seems like it would be pretty different. Well, it would be, it was difficult. At least they have the, the same, you know, right, similar raw materials, but, yeah, that's right. But I mean, that's a whole different, I mean, you're, you're to cross the ocean with it.
如果埃隆·马斯克派人去火星，他们能否把火星的碎片拾起来并在那里建造建筑，然后再发回地球呢？这将会是件非常壮观的事情。对，这个想法似乎非常不同寻常。但是，这很难实现。至少他们有相似的原材料，但是要穿越海洋实现这个想法是非常困难的。
I mean, that's, yeah. I mean, you wonder if we, if we reach out to the stars or whatever, because at first it's going to be the same thing. You put a little toe hole on there. Yeah. And you have to, you have to turn that into place to live. And, you know, it, that we might face that again because that humanity did. We had this time where you were on the other side of an ocean. And it is the top end of our technology that can even get across that ocean quite often didn't. Yeah.
我是说，就像这样吧。我是说，你会想知道我们是否能够到达星星或其他地方，因为一开始会是同样的情况。你在那儿放了一个小脚印，然后你必须把它变成适合居住的地方。你知道吗，人类曾经面临过这种情况。我们曾经处在大海的另一侧，而我们顶级的技术甚至经常无法越过那条海洋。
Much of it was lost in the storms. And, and that you got there and you had to make one of those yourselves out of, you know, just the tools that you're proud of. That's, that's just absolutely amazing to think about it. But will, humanity be able to do that again? Hopefully not on someone else's land, but hopefully that's the, that's what we have to, we have to hope for and that will be able to, but it'll be a struggle and it'll be both, I think it's interesting that it'll be both a familiar struggle and a very, very new one. Very new one.
很多东西在风暴中损失了。然后，你到那里之后，你不得不自己用你所自豪的工具做出一个相似的东西。想想就绝对令人惊叹。但人类将能够再次做到这一点吗？希望不是在别人的土地上，但希望就是我们必须抱持的。这将是一场斗争，既熟悉又全新，非常全新。
I also thought that it's, they talked about, oh, someone said there was a big water nearby. And it's, it's just one of those funny comments because he's, he's like, oh, that must be the Pacific Ocean. And now, the dramatic irony of history where like, we know something you don't. And that's that you are an awful, long way from the Pacific Ocean. Which I guess when you, when you think about it now, they must have been probably talking about the Great Lakes. But I mean, I, he might have misunderstood me.
我也认为那是他们谈论的话题，哦，有人说附近有一大片水。这只是一条有趣的评论，因为他说：“这一定是太平洋。”历史上的戏剧性讽刺是，我们知道一些你不知道的事情。那就是，你离太平洋相距相当遥远。我想，当你现在回忆起来时，他们可能是在谈论五大湖。但是，我是说，他可能没有听懂我的话。
He said, I mean, he's just only got some Bay or whatever. Yeah. What's a big water? That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that they're like, oh, big water and he's like, that must be an ocean. Uh-huh.
他说，“我是说，他只有一些海湾或其他什么东西。”“是啊，那是什么大水？”“没错。”“是的，是的，是的。”“他们说‘大水’，他说那一定是指海洋。”“嗯。” 这段话的意思是，他在谈论一个人只有海湾或其他小水域，但是他们讨论的是什么是“大水”，最终认为这指的是海洋。
That might have been just, it might have been just simply a translation. Well, I mean, I mean, the, the, it's amazing that we're apparently trading networks that really cross over across the Americas and things like that. But I mean, the bottom line is any, any people that you ran into probably, uh, health sway and experience in a relatively small geography. Yeah. And so when your world is, you know, 20 square miles, 50 square miles, 100 square miles, then you know, everything's going to be, you know, have a different sort of reference. That's true. And then you're having water, you know, how did an Englishman explain England in Europe to, uh, to an atom when they got here?
这可能只是一种翻译，也可能是仅仅是一种翻译。我的意思是说，我们很惊讶地发现我们实际上正在进行跨越美洲的交易网络等活动。但归根结底，你所遇到的人可能只是在相对较小的地理区域内具有影响力和经验。当你所了解的世界只有20平方英里、50平方英里、甚至100平方英里时，那么你所感知到的一切都会有不同的参考标准。这是真的。那么，一个英国人如何向一个原住民解释英格兰在欧洲的位置，当他们到达这里时呢？
Something they were doing with your worlds are very different to try to compare. Yeah. And I think that's to understand those distances. I took a while to figure out how big the Americas were. That's not a surprise. Yeah, that's, it's the maps are, the maps are always cool. I like looking at those early maps because you first get this like, oh, they think it's like the skinny, skinny little and then they slowly start discovering everything. And they keep trying, they keep trying to draw the Pacific Ocean close to that. Ultimately, that was this big dream. Was that it was so hard to get to. It was so hard to get to China and the various ports and that, you know, in the far, you know, was agreement over on the, on the ocean, you know, but, yeah, so you thought you had this different way to get there. So you found a little world around. I can just go that way.
他们与你的世界所做的事情非常不同，很难进行比较。是的，我认为理解这些距离是很困难的。我花了一段时间才弄清楚美洲有多大，这不是什么惊喜。是的，地图总是很有意思。我喜欢看那些早期地图，因为你首先会认为它很瘦小，然后他们慢慢地开始发现一切。他们一直试图把太平洋画得更靠近，因为那是一个巨大的梦想。到中国和各种港口非常困难，在遥远的海洋上达成协议。所以你以为有一种不同的方法可以到达那里，于是你找到了一个小世界，可以那样去。
I'm like, oh, that's big. Yeah. And they were, I think any people, people even still sometimes have trouble understanding how big America is. I think it's a big, big, this continent. It is a long way to walk across all of, all of North America. And depending on, you know, where you're trying to walk across it, it's, it can be an awfully long way. And they're, you know, their ability to, to map is not always. If you're a little off, your map suddenly start looking pretty ridiculous.
我说，“哦，这很大哦。”是的，我认为有些人，甚至现在仍然很难理解美国有多大。我认为这是一个非常非常大的大陆。从一个边走到另一个边，穿越整个北美洲需要很长的路程。而且具体取决于你要穿越的地点，在某些情况下，它可能需要非常漫长的距离。而且他们的制图能力并不总是完美的。只要偏一点，你的地图就会显得很荒谬。
And they would, it would have been a dangerous journey anyway. And it was, I mean, it continued, took them a long time to actually get all the way across.
他们想要去，但无论如何这是一次危险的旅程。事实上，他们继续前行，花了很长时间才终于完全横跨。
Even once they had, you know, once this Spanish had like come across Mexico and resend in ships up the West Coast, it still took forever to figure out exactly what they're all. Yeah, well, there's a between in the middle and put together.
即使这些西班牙人到达墨西哥并沿西海岸重新发送，他们仍然需要很长时间才能确切地了解那些用户。是的，这其中存在着一些难以理解的部分，需要我们进行拼凑和整理。
And now that we can, you know, hang above the earth and see the whole of its geography, there's still parts here that are under the oceans and things like that. But I mean, you know, when you think about our understanding of, you know, whatever might come next is just as tenuous. Yeah, it's, it's really interesting.
现在我们能够漂浮在地球上方，看到地球的整体地理，但仍然有部分地球在海洋下面等等。但是，当你考虑我们对下一步可能发生的事情的理解也同样脆弱时。是的，这真的很有趣。
Now we have a way to look at a map and it, even if you know, you're not like great at geography, you have a basic idea of what the world looks like. And that is it. That is new.
现在我们有一种查看地图的方式，即使你不是很擅长地理，也可以基本了解世界的样子。这是新的。
Because it didn't used to be like that that we had any, any real idea, objective idea of what the world looks like from, you know, from a relief far outside. You can see from space. Now we can draw these map, we can draw all these maps and we take it for granted.
之前我们根本没有一个真正的、客观的想法，知道从外面的高空俯瞰世界是什么样子的。现在我们可以绘制这些地图，我们认为这是理所当然的。
But man, there was a long time where you did not, even if you had a map, it, it's accuracy was not necessarily a, yeah. And, and well, especially our flat maps are opening out around the bobs and all sorts of things. Yeah.
但是，曾经有很长一段时间，即使你有地图，它的准确性也不一定是可以信赖的。而且，特别是我们的平面地图在海浪和各种事物的影响下也有可能失真。
So I mean that we have, all the things that we have now that's extraordinary compared to the past, one of the things that we have now that's extraordinary compared to the past is that we have, we have an ability to visualize the earth in a way that wasn't there before you could, you know, go up.
我想说的是，与过去相比，我们现在拥有的一切都是非凡的，其中一个非常非凡的事情就是我们现在有能力以前所没有的方式来可视化地球，你可以看到飞行视角。
Despite the failure of Papa, you can still argue that it was an important milestone in the colonization, especially of the, the, the, the Northeast of the, what is now the United States is that it proved, which without, apparently without a, people remembering, it proved that that was that, it could be successful, especially that far north.
尽管“爸爸计划”失败了，但仍可以认为它是殖民地发展中的一个重要里程碑，尤其是在现在所谓的美国东北地区。因为它证明了即便在没有什么帮助的情况下，它也可以成功，并且特别是在那么北的地方。人们会记住这一点。
And I'm not sure how much people took that lesson because I'm not sure exactly when it was forgotten. That's also, I mean, it did, I mean, every, every time that you came over, if you survived and that's proof that you could survive and then that courage more to come over and of course, probably wouldn't necessarily get for the natives.
我不确定有多少人从那个教训中学到了什么，因为我不确定它是何时被遗忘的。也就是说，每次你来过来，如果你能活下来，那就证明你能够活下来，那样就会鼓励更多的人来。当然，这并不一定会对土著人有好处。
But yes, I mean, I mean, it, I mean, it at first has meaning.
但是，我的意思是，我的意思是，它，我的意思是，一开始它是有意义的。
I mean, the fact that they could build a successful colony there, even if people didn't remember that, it does say that, you know, we had the ability to do that with the technology to do that.
我的意思是，即使人们不记得，他们仍然能在那里建立一个成功的殖民地，这说明我们有能力使用技术做到这一点。
And you find out, you know, the success of these colonies often has to do with the planting and then. But I mean, there's, there's lots of life lessons there too on how something, how something can be well done all around and still fail in the end because, you know, they still faced, you know, they faced all these various issues with, they didn't get there in time to plant and what they, you know, they were able to plant and didn't work out as well as they wanted and stuff burned down.
你发现，这些殖民地的成功往往跟种植和耕种有关。但是，那里也有很多生活经验可以借鉴，比如即使一件事各个方面都做得很好，最终仍然会失败，因为他们仍然面临着各种问题，如没有及时到达种植地、所种植的东西没有达到预期效果或者出现火灾等。
And it's, it really is an interesting, an interesting way to see how even successful colonies, even colonies that seem to have been run fairly well, are constantly beset by the difficulties of being where they are and not, not being able to build as well.
这确实是一个有趣的方式去了解即使是成功的殖民地，甚至是看似一直被良好管理的殖民地，也不断面临着其所处位置和无法建造的困难。
And of course, you've got pires and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I mean, that's true today, though.
当然，你还有皮雷斯，还有，还有，还有，还有，还有，还有，还有，还有，还有，我是说，虽然今天也是如此。
意思是说，在现今情况下，你还可以有其他选择，就像有皮雷斯这个选择一样。
I mean, whether you're constantly faced challenges for this, there's, you know, huge pieces of land that we use to raise the food for the world that will have a drought or, I mean, so, you know, we, we still face those issues in a world that's more interconnected and we have a better ability to move, you know, when it's good, it's when some place in bad, in another place where you can move that around.
我的意思是，无论你是否经常面临这些挑战，我们都需要用大片土地来种植全球粮食，但这些土地可能会遭受干旱等灾害。所以，即使我们生活在更加互联互通的世界，拥有更好的跨地区转移能力，我们仍然面临这些问题。当一个地方遇到困境时，我们可以将资源运输到另一个地方。
But I mean, that idea that you're just there and that it's, that it's months away from anybody that might know anything about you and that you can't communicate it, too. So, you know, fun, not here. We'll find that in the, in the second video that we have today, too.
我的意思是，你在那里，距离可能了解你的人还有好几个月，而且你也无法与他们沟通。所以，你知道的，没有乐趣。我们今天的第二个视频中也会找到乐趣。
I mean, that's, you know, you're just, you just have to figure it out by yourself. And then, those, do we have those people anymore? I mean, that we still have that ability or we lost it in the modern world. We certainly, we don't have, we don't face these kinds of problems so much anymore. And of course, we have different resources if we did, but it's, it's true.
我的意思是，你知道的，你只能自己想办法解决。那么，这些人，我们还有这样的人吗？我的意思是，在现代世界中，我们还保留着这种能力，还是已经失去了？当然，我们现在不再面临这些问题了。当然，如果有需要，我们也有不同的资源，但这是真的。
As they, they were certainly, you know, those pioneers and those people who were willing to go do that, they were, they were risking their lives. And even if they lived, it was going to be the kind of difficult, backbreaking work that, you know, was not necessarily going to be thankful. People were not necessarily going to be like, you weren't going to necessarily make a bunch of money off of it or be, you know, really lived a life you wanted to live, get what you wanted to get out of it. Yeah.
当时的拓荒者和那些愿意前去探险的人肯定非常勇敢，因为他们面临着生命的危险。即使他们幸存下来，他们也要去从事劳累的、艰苦的工作，可能不会得到别人的感激。也许他们不会因此赚到很多钱，或者无法过上自己想要的生活，得到自己想要的东西。
But you were willing to, you know, make that big, because you just need a room, maybe, because you want to move forward, maybe just because they're sad, you know, like the mountain climbing says because it's there. Yeah. You know, so I mean, it's, it's an extraordinary time, extraordinary people. Because people have popped them. I mean, I don't think that 99% of the world today could even imagine that level of hardship and endure it. And so they deserve to remember.
但你愿意去做那件大事，你知道的，因为你只是需要一个房间，或许因为你想继续前进，或许只是因为他们很悲伤，就像登山者为了攀登山而攀登。是啊，你知道的，现在是不同寻常的时代，有着不同寻常的人。因为人们已经越过了它们。我想，现在的99%的人都无法想象那种苦难，并且忍受了它。因此，他们值得被铭记。
Magellan TV is sponsoring this episode and they sponsor all of our podcasts. And if you've listened to the podcast, you know that what we like to do is talk about what we've been watching on Magellan TV lately. And so what have you been watching on Magellan TV?
Magellan TV 赞助了本期节目，并且他们还赞助了我们的所有播客节目。如果你听过我们的播客节目，你就知道我们喜欢谈论最近在 Magellan TV 上观看的内容。那么你最近在 Magellan TV 上观看了什么呢？
Yeah, I guess I was just kind of looking for things to watch. And I found this one called the extraordinary tale of William Buckley, the great untold story of all stories, Robinson Crusoe. I'd never heard of the guy. And the documentary is just a lot of fun. It doesn't kind of person that reenacting it. They got a guy to reenact it throughout. And it's this guy that was brought to Australia as a prisoner and ran away because he didn't want to be a prisoner.
是啊，我想找点东西看，然后看到了一部名为《威廉·巴克利的非凡传奇：世间无双的故事——《鲁滨逊漂流记》》的纪录片。我之前从未听说过这个人。这部纪录片非常有趣，里面有许多演员翻拍真实场景。故事讲的是一个被送往澳大利亚的犯人，因不想当囚犯而逃跑的故事。
And they, I mean, not in that like when it was a colony, I mean like, you know, really at the very start here. So he just run it off into the wilderness and he's being adopted by Avergene's and adopted into the culture. And eventually the people that he became adopted and became part of their, their life and their culture and their family essentially get wiped out by Europeans. And this guy's stuck, you know, one leg in both worlds.
他们，我的意思是，不是像当殖民地那样，我想表达的是，你知道的，真正开始这里的时候。因此，他就跑到荒野中，并被Avergene人收养，并融入该文化。最终，他被收养并加入他们的生活、文化和家庭的人被欧洲人消灭了。这个人陷入两个世界，一条腿放在两个世界。
It's really a fascinating story. The documentary is a lot of fun because it really shows you how, you know, all his experiences. It's really coincidence that keeps him alive. So I want to spoil what I would say is that it is this compelling story of history. You'll ever heard very much like the history guy. So I never heard before.
这个故事真的很迷人。纪录片非常有趣，因为它真正展现了他的所有经历。他能活下来全凭巧合，这真的很神奇。我想说的是，这是一个非常引人入胜的历史故事，你会发现它很像一个历史学家所讲述的故事，之前我从未听说过。
And I almost forgot my history. What have you been watching on Magellan TV? So one of the ones I watched recently is called Dino Bird. And that's a little bit of a dramatic title. But what they're looking at is Casuaries. Which are living Australia in rainforest.
我差点忘了我的历史了。你最近在Magellan TV上看了什么节目？其中我最近看的是一部叫做“恐龙鸟”的节目。这个标题有点夸张了。但他们研究的是袋鸟。这些袋鸟生活在澳大利亚的热带雨林里。
But the Casuaries are really interesting birds. That's they are known as some of the most dangerous birds that got like this nasty claw. Although I was reading some stuff apparently they're not perhaps as deadly and dangerous as their reputation would suggest. I wouldn't mess with any bird. It looks maniac. Oh, yeah, that's right. That big, that heavy.
卡鸵鸟其实是非常有趣的鸟类。他们因爪子很凶险而被认为是最危险的鸟之一。尽管我阅读了一些资料，但似乎他们的致命性和危险性并不像名声所说的那么大。我不会去招惹任何鸟类，他们看上去疯狂。哦，对了。那么大，那么沉重。
But this one was mostly about this particular Casuary who was an old, an old woman. And she is named Bertha. And she in Casuary world, it's the women who run, they rule the roost. And so she is going around and laying eggs with random males. She chooses who she wants to have eggs with. And then she lays those eggs and she leaves. She's like, Dad, that's up to you. I don't really care what happens after this point.
但这个故事主要是关于一只卡苏亚鸟，它是一只老女人，名叫伯莎。在卡苏亚鸟的世界中，是女性主宰，她随意选择雄性去产卵。她自己决定与谁产卵，然后她就离开了，对这之后发生的事情她并不在乎。她对这些事情的处理更多的是交给公鸟去处理。
And it's up to the males to raise the. Up to the males completely. The males raise them completely from from egg to adult fairly uncommon in nature, where it's a solely a male that does the child rearing. But Bertha is quite a character. She is somewhat frightening. I would, they talk about what she walks up to. This like young male. And they're like, oh, she's, you know, she's intimidating. And I'm like, yeah, I'd be intimidated by her too.
这就全靠雄性来养育它们了，整个过程都由雄性来照顾，从孵蛋到成年，这在自然界中相当罕见，通常都是母性来养育后代。但柏沙是一个相当有个性的动物，有点吓人。他们讨论她走到年轻的雄性身边时的情况，说她很威风，而我觉得，如果我碰到她也会被吓到。
But it's also, you know, the difficulties of being a Casuary and. That's a more exciting question on them. Less than less habitat. Yeah. It's a really, it's a really great documentary. And you get again, just amazing, amazing film of these, of these really quite incredible things.
但这也是卡松鸟所面临的困难。这是一个更令人兴奋的问题。它们的栖息地越来越少。是的，这是一部非常棒的纪录片。你会再次看到这些真的非常惊人的事情，令人惊叹的电影。
One of the awesome things about the Jell-in TV is that you can go from something like a nature documentary like that to something about like, you know, this, I guess would have been early modern history when I was looking at it. You can, you can look at modern history. You can look at true crime. You can look at space and technology. And that's all there. I'm a Jell-in TV. And they had hundreds every single week. It's amazing. It's amazing. I never run out of stuff to watch. There's always something more. I watch it all over the place with a much on my TV or my tablet or my phone. Yeah. It's always that you've got so many you want to watch. You may have the problems picking which one you got the time for because there's always something great to watch on the Jell-in TV. And of course, if you are a listener or watcher of the history guy, you can always go to try.mjellinTV.com slash history guy, where we will always have a deal for you. Sometimes a free month or a deal on an annual membership or even a documentary that you can watch for free. Again, that's try.mjellinTV.com slash history guy.
Jell-in电视的一个很棒的特点是你可以从类似大自然纪录片这样的东西，转到像这样的东西，我想当时可能是早现代史，当我看它时。你可以看现代历史、真实的犯罪案件、天文与技术等等，这些都在Jell-in电视上有。每周都有数百个新内容，太神奇了。我永远不会看腻。我随时随地都可以在电视、平板电脑或手机上观看。是啊，你有太多的选择，你想看什么都有。你可能会面临选择难题，因为Jell-in电视永远有很多好东西可以看。当然，如果你是历史家的听众或观众，你可以随时访问try.mjellinTV.com/history guy，我们将为你提供交易。有时会送一个免费的月份或年度会员的交易，甚至是一个你可以免费观看的纪录片。再次提醒，这是try.mjellinTV.com/history guy。
Next up, the history guy tells the story of Scotland's attempts to colonize Panama. And stay tuned after the episode to hear us chat a little more with the history guy.
接下来，这位历史专家将讲述苏格兰试图殖民巴拿马的故事。在本集节目后，敬请继续收听我们与这位历史专家的聊天。
On August 15th, 1914, the Panama Canal opened, the culmination of a massive engineering project that has transformed the world's economy. In the century before, there have been many different schemes and visions and even some attempts to cross the isthmus as the economic potential of a trade route between China and Europe via the Caribbean was recognized.
1914年8月15日，巴拿马运河开通，这是一项庞大的工程项目的巅峰之作，改变了全球经济格局。在此之前的一个世纪中，人们提出了许多不同的方案和愿景，甚至尝试跨越地峡，因为人们认识到了通过加勒比海的贸易路线连接中国和欧洲的经济潜力。
But actually, the economic potential of Panama was recognized long before that. In the latter part of the 17th century, Scotland looked to reverse decades of economic decline and joined Europe's great powers by creating a colony in the Americas. Several different bridges failed. But by 1690, they had settled on a promising new possibility. Panama.
但实际上，巴拿马的经济潜力早在那之前就得到了认可。在17世纪后期，苏格兰试图扭转几十年的经济衰退，通过在美洲建立一个殖民地来加入欧洲的大国行列。他们尝试了几种不同的方式，但到1690年，他们找到了一个有希望的新方向：巴拿马。
The Darian scheme, the Scottish attempt to colonize Panama, might have changed the world. It is history that deserves to be remembered.
达里安计划是苏格兰对巴拿马殖民化的尝试，它可能改变了世界。这是值得记住的历史。
The 1600s were a century of struggle for Scotland. In 1603, James VI, the king of the Scots, had inherited the crown of England and become English king James I, but the two kingdoms remained separate otherwise. Religious fought throughout the century persisted, leading in terms to the Bishop's Wars, the English Civil War, and in the middle of the century the execution of Charles I and the establishment of the Crumwellian Protectorate.
17世纪对苏格兰来说是一个充满挣扎的世纪。在1603年，苏格兰国王詹姆斯六世继承了英格兰的王位并成为英格兰国王詹姆斯一世，但两个王国在其他方面仍然保持分开。这个世纪始终存在着宗教争斗，这导致主教之战、英国内战，在世纪中又执行查尔斯一世并确立了克伦威尔的统治。
Scotland fought against Crumwell in support of Charles II but was ultimately defeated and kept under military occupation. Restoration of the monarchy in 1660 brought little relief. Scotland was traditionally friendly with France, but English and French conflict prevented Scotland from trading with him, and the navigation acts forbade Scotland from trading with England's colonies.
苏格兰曾为支持查理二世而对抗克伦威尔，但最终被击败并遭受军事占领。1660年君主制的恢复带来了很少的缓解。苏格兰传统上与法国友好，但英法冲突阻止了苏格兰与法国进行贸易，而航海法则禁止苏格兰与英格兰的殖民地进行贸易。
The glorious revolution in 1688 saw King James VII dethroned, but Scottish Jacobites continued to fight the English in his name. On top of all that, the 1690s brought them a major something trade, strictly cold winters in a series of bad harvest, collectively called the Seven Ill Years. The population in some areas reached the highest, 25%.
1688年的光荣革命推翻了詹姆斯七世国王，但苏格兰杰克宾仍继续以他的名义与英格兰人对抗。此外，1690年代还带来了一场重大的饥荒贸易，严寒的冬季以及一系列糟糕的收成，统称为“七年刁难”。在某些地区，人口增长率达到了25%的最高值。
Scottish interests were actively searching for a way to expand Scotland's trading potential, and the hope of rescuing their faltering economy. The man with the idea that would stick was William Patterson.
苏格兰利益集团积极寻求扩大苏格兰的贸易潜力，并希望拯救他们不断衰退的经济。最终拿出能够起作用的想法的人是威廉·帕特森。
Patterson was born in Scotland around 1658 and had immigrated to the Bahamas, where he had first heard of Daryen, a region in what is now Panama. Panama was an important locus of trade in much of Spain's colonial wealth passed through the region. First sighted by Europeans in 1501 in 1510, Vasco Nunez del Baboa founded a town in Daryen, the first city founded by conquistadors in mainland America, although it was abandoned in favor of Panama City.
帕特森大约在1658年出生于苏格兰，并移民到了巴哈马。在那里，他第一次听说了达连地区，即今天的巴拿马。巴拿马是一个重要的贸易中心，大部分西班牙殖民财富都通过该地区。欧洲人第一次于1501年发现巴拿马，并于1510年，在达连创立了一个城市。这是征服者在美洲大陆上建立的第一个城市，尽管它后来被放弃，改为建立巴拿马城。
In 1534, the Spanish King even ordered a survey to assess the feasibility of building a canal across the region. Patterson sought potential in Panama, and on his return to England, he attempted to convince the English to establish a colony there. The English were then involved in a war with France, didn't want to antagonize the Spanish, so they declined. Patterson also tried to convince the Dutch, and the Holy Roman Empire to establish a colony at Daryen.
1534年，西班牙国王甚至下令进行一项调查，以评估在该地区修建运河的可行性。帕特森在巴拿马看到了潜力，回到英国后，他试图说服英国人在那里建立殖民地。当时的英国正在与法国开战，不想激怒西班牙，所以他们拒绝了。帕特森还试图说服荷兰和神圣罗马帝国在达里恩建立殖民地。
Patterson, wealthy from his part in the slave trade, and after having played a significant role in the founding of the Bank of England, finally returned to Scotland, where he was able to convince the Scottish government of his plan. Scottish enterprises had attempted colonization in the Americas several times before, first at Nova Scotia, which was finally successfully settled in 1629 only to be lost to the French by treaty in 1632.
帕特森（Patterson）因参与奴隶贸易而富有，曾在创立英格兰银行方面扮演重要角色后，最终回到苏格兰，在那里他成功地说服了苏格兰政府采纳他的计划。苏格兰企业曾多次尝试在美洲殖民，最早是在新斯科舍省（Nova Scotia），1629年终于成功定居，但又在1632年根据条约被法国占领。
After the New Jersey colony was designated East Jersey as a Scottish settlement, although it would eventually be merged into a royal colony. Scotland was also able to secure part of Carolina as a Scottish colony, which was then wiped out by the Spanish only two years after its founding.
在新泽西殖民地被指定为苏格兰移民定居的东泽西州之后，它最终被合并成为一种皇家殖民地。苏格兰还成功地将北卡罗来纳的一部分保留为苏格兰殖民地，但在成立仅两年后被西班牙所摧毁。
In 1693, the Scottish Parliament passed legislation allowing for a joint stock company that could found colonies, the act in favor of the Scottish trading company trading to Africa and the Indies. The Scottish trading company was meant to be the Scottish equivalent to the British and Dutch East India companies, the act forming the company granted an exclusive privilege of trade between Scotland and America for 31 years, and a perpetual monopoly to arm and equip its ships in trade to Asia and Africa.
1693年，苏格兰议会通过法律，允许成立一家联合股份公司，以建立殖民地，这项法案支持苏格兰贸易公司与撒哈拉以南非洲和印度进行贸易。苏格兰贸易公司旨在成为英国和荷兰东印度公司的苏格兰等价物。法案成立了这家公司，为其在苏格兰和美洲之间的贸易授予了31年的独家特权，并授予其在与亚洲和非洲进行贸易时装备其船只的永久垄断权。
King William III was fighting in Europe at the time, and on his return he remarked that he was a little surprised that the sweeping nature of the concession given to the company. Though the location was initially kept secret, the endeavor was hardly supported by the Scottish populace. The Scots opened up subscription books to support the company in London on November 13, 1695, and they closed only nine days later with £300,000 subscribed.
当时威廉三世国王正在欧洲作战，回国后他评论说他有点惊讶于这个公司得到的权力太广泛了。尽管一开始保持了位置的保密，这个计划并没有得到苏格兰大众的支持。苏格兰人在1695年11月13日在伦敦开设了订阅活动来支持这个公司，然而只有九天的时间就募集了30万英镑的订阅款项。
Then the first of many roadblocks appeared. The English government, listening to complaints from the East India Company, discouraged investment, and many of the investors suddenly withdrew. Scotland next set subscriptions from Holland and Hamburg, both of which fell apart thanks to English influence. Scotland had only one other option for financing, the Scottish people themselves. All ranks yay the body of the nation are longing to have a plantation in America, Scottish promoters advertised.
然后出现了第一个路障。英国政府接到东印度公司的投诉后，阻挠了投资，很多投资者突然撤出了。接着，苏格兰开放了荷兰和汉堡的认购，但由于英国的影响而破裂。苏格兰只剩下了一种融资选择，那就是苏格兰人自己。苏格兰的推销人广告宣传，“全体国民渴望在美洲建立一个种植园”。
Initially the company was supported only by the Scottish elite, but without foreign assistance the company couldn't be financed on the backs of the wealthy alone. Since England was actively sabotaging the effort, the average Scotsman was suddenly interested as a display of patriotism. Scottish historian Peter Hume Brown would later say that there has been no such enthusiasm in the country as was shown by all classes in their eagerness to invest their savings in the company. It was fueled another historian's head by an astonishing outburst of patriotic defiance. Without foreign support the company had to increase the necessary figure as well, seeking £400,000 sterling. Despite widespread poverty the people of Scotland showed up. The amount of money subscribed was incredible, it's been estimated to be 20% or more of the total capital available in the country. The Scots had pledged £2.5 pounds sterling per person. Even critics were impressed with when writing, to be short, they came in sholes from all corners of the kingdom to Edinburgh, rich, poor, blind and lame, to lodge their subscriptions.
最初，这家公司只得到苏格兰精英的支持，但是仅靠富裕阶层的支持无法获得资金。由于英格兰积极破坏这一努力，普通苏格兰人出于爱国主义的表现突然表现出了兴趣。 苏格兰历史学家彼得·休姆·布朗后来会说，在全国各阶层的热情投资中，没有出现过这样的热情。 这是另一位历史学家感到的强烈的爱国反抗。 没有外国支持，公司还必须增加必要的数字，寻求40万英镑。尽管普遍贫困，苏格兰人民也积极响应。 认购的金额令人难以置信，估计为全国可用总资本的20％或更多。 苏格兰人承诺每人出资2.5英镑。 即使是批评者也对此印象深刻，在简单地写下这些话时，他们从全国各地涌向爱丁堡，贫富盲瘫，来订阅。
The company also broke tradition by allowing women to invest, which a large number did, including 22 widows. While they considered other activities, Patterson's plan became the primary goal. Perhaps the most progressive aspect was for the colony at Darian to be available to all countries for trade. In general trade at the time was of the mercantilist system, usually controlled by a single country or company that kept others out.
公司还打破了传统，允许女性进行投资，很多女性都参与了其中，其中包括22位寡妇。虽然他们考虑了其他活动，但帕特森的计划成为了主要目标。或许最具进步性的方面是达里安殖民地对所有国家的贸易开放。当时的贸易通常是由一个国家或公司控制，排除其他国家的重商主义体系。
Adam Smith's wealth of nations, which championed free trade, wouldn't be published for another 80 years. With the money in hand the company of Scotland bought supplies and ships, and they researched the region, and this with all good stories, they turned to pirates. They consulted the recently published A New Voyage Around the World by Pirate William Dampeer, who had crossed the Darian Isthmus and invited another pirate, Lionel Waffer, to consult. Waffer had been abandoned on the Isthmus, who was taken in by the indigenous locals who undertook to cure him. Waffer said that there was little Spanish presence in the Caribbean and that the wild locals lived some distance from the shore, which would allow the Scots to build a port. Now so told him where to build a fort and of the locations of fresh water. Waffer thought that the Darian Isthmus was one of the most valuable spots of ground in the world.
亚当·斯密的《国富论》主张自由贸易，然而要等80年后才被出版。苏格兰公司手头有钱，购置了物资和船只，并研究了该地区，但遇到了海盗。他们查阅了海盗威廉·丹皮尔最近出版的《环球新航程》，后来还请来了另一位海盗莱奥内尔·沃夫询问。沃夫在地峡上被遗弃，被当地土著接纳并治愈。沃夫说在加勒比地区几乎没有西班牙人，野生的本地人离海岸有一定距离，苏格兰人可以在这里建立港口。沃夫向他们指出了建造要塞的地点和淡水来源。沃夫认为达里恩地峡是世界上最有价值的地方之一。
In only three years from the company's inception it was able to execute its daring plan to outfit and send an expedition to form a colony in the new world. On July 14th, 1698, the first three of five ships set sail from Leith to the Caribbean, only a few months delayed from their initial goal. Patterson and his family sailed with them, and they sailed in secret, going north around Scotland and Ireland to avoid the English. Even the captains didn't know where they were headed, they opened up sealed letters at pre-arranged locations that led them to the next stage of their journey.
在创立仅仅三年后，这家公司就能够执行它大胆的计划，为了在新世界建立殖民地而装备并派遣探险队。于1698年7月14日，从利斯启程的五艘船只中的前三艘向加勒比海航行，仅比最初的目标延迟了几个月。帕特森和他的家人与他们一起航行，在秘密中出发，绕过苏格兰和爱尔兰北上，避开英格兰。甚至船长们也不知道他们要去哪里，他们在预先安排的地点打开密封信，以便前往下一阶段的旅程。
The five ships were well stocked with supplies meant to last at least a year once they arrived and carried 1,200 people. In October the fleet arrived at the Isthmus and met with local chiefs, who, according to Scottish reports, pledged to sponsor the settlement and asked to be taken under the Scottish protection and government. 76 people had died on the journey, including Patterson's wife, but the survival rate itself was better than average. They christened the colony New Caledonia after the ancient name for Scotland.
这五艘船满载着能够至少维持一年使用的供应品，并搭载了1,200人。在十月份，船队到达了地峡并与当地酋长会面，根据苏格兰的报道，酋长们承诺支持这个殖民地，并请求加入苏格兰的保护和政府管辖。在这次旅行中，包括帕特森的妻子在内，有76人死亡，但幸存率高于平均水平。他们将这个殖民地定名为新喀里多尼亚，以纪念苏格兰的古老名字。
The native peoples were not naive or stupid as Europeans often believed in the Scotts found negotiations complex and difficult. The indigenous people were attempting to work the various powers against each other, even as the Scotts arrived in English age it was attempting to negotiate a colony on the Isthmus. Locals also pressed the Scotts very hard to come and live by them, and also jointly to make war against the Spaniards.
原住民并不像欧洲人常以为的那样天真或愚蠢。苏格兰人发现谈判复杂而困难。当苏格兰人到达伊斯密斯时，当地居民一直试图让不同的势力对抗对方。当地居民向苏格兰人施压，要求他们来和他们一起生活，并共同对抗西班牙人。
The colonists built a fort and christened it Fort St Andrew, established a 7 person council with rotating leadership with a new council member leading each month. The initial months of settlement were reasonably successful, and the colonists sent back positive accounts to their homeland. Counts that may have been deliberately rosier than reality.
殖民者们建造了一座堡垒并将其命名为圣安德鲁堡，设立了一个7人议会，轮流领导，每个月由一个新的议会成员领导。定居的最初几个月相当成功，并向他们的祖国发回了积极的报告，有可能比现实更加美好。
Unfortunately, the success wouldn't last. The region was in a state of war. The locals, especially the Guna people, were trying to keep the Spanish out, and the Caribbean was filling up with pirates who raided the coasts. Worse, the Spanish were already on high alert concerning the Darian region. News from the Guna and the constant threat of attack wore a morale, which worsened when the king began vocally opposing the venture.
不幸的是，这个成功并没有持续下去。这个地区正处于战乱中。当地居民，特别是古纳族人，试图阻止西班牙人入侵，加勒比海也充斥着袭击海岸的海盗。更糟糕的是，西班牙人已经对达里安地区保持高度警惕。古纳人的消息以及不断的袭击威胁，使士气逐渐低落。当国王开始公然反对该企业时，情况变得更加糟糕。
In Parliament, the council of trade and plantations declared that the settlement broke English treaties with Spain, and the colony would be highly mischievous to English interests in the region. The Scotts had repeatedly sought royal permission for the venture, but the king ultimately decided the colony was a threat.
在议会上，贸易和种植理事会宣布该殖民地违反了英国与西班牙的条约，并且对英国在该地区的利益极具危害性。苏格兰人一再寻求皇家许可进行这项冒险，但国王最终决定这种殖民地会造成威胁。
After those initial months, Badluck and Lomarau began to drag down the colony. The bayhead treacherous tides had threatened the ships. Their delayed departure left provisions exceedingly short on what was given out or expected. Still, the captain of one ship pronounced that, I have sailed for the space of eight years together in America, and I must say, I never had that time held out so well. The choice of trade items has also been criticized, but they did carry iron-mongri and clothing to barter. Unfortunately, no one was there willing to trade with them.
在那些最初的几个月之后，Badluck和Lomarau开始拖累殖民地。海湾的危险潮汐威胁着船只。他们耽搁了出发时间，让食物供应异常短缺。尽管如此，一艘船的船长宣称，“我在美国连续航行了八年，我必须说，这次我从未有过如此出色的表现”。贸易物品的选择也受到了批评，但他们确实携带了铁器和衣物以进行交易。不幸的是，没有人愿意和他们进行交易。
The delay in setting out also meant they landed at the height of the rainy season, which brought so much rain that it made building the settlement of new Edinburgh nearly impossible. This is also the peak season for malaria, and they arrived during a serious outbreak of yellow fever. The colony sent expeditions overland to find the Pacific, but quickly discovered that a reliable overland trade route through the dense jungles would be impossible in the short term. They failed to grow significant food, and the supplies became infested with maggots and worms, so the colonists became like so many skeletons.
延迟出发意味着他们在雨季的高峰期降落，雨水如此之多，以至于几乎无法建立新爱丁堡的定居点。这也是疟疾的高发期，他们正好到达时正值严重的黄热病爆发期。殖民地派出征队穿越陆地寻找太平洋，但很快发现在短期内要在密集的丛林中找到一个可靠的陆路贸易路线是不可能的。他们未能成功种植大量的食物，而供应品已被蛆虫和蠕虫污染，以至于殖民者变成了许多骷髅。
King William ordered English and Dutch colonies in the Caribbean to offer no support and sent a message to the Spanish specifically disabowing the colony. In France stood against them. Yay, once got said, it is plainly the interest of France to have Caledonia broken. The colonists were sorry to find that our good intention therein must in all probability prove abortive because of the proclamations. They begged the king for support, writing that we pray you to remember how promises made you to advance our trade have been broke.
威廉国王下令加勒比海的英国和荷兰殖民地不得提供任何支持，并向西班牙发送了一条信息，明确表示不支持该殖民地。法国则站在他们的对立面。正如有人所说，法国显然有利于让新喀里多尼亚分裂。殖民者们很遗憾地发现，由于公告的限制，我们的良好意图在很大可能上将被证明是流产的。他们请求国王提供支持，并写信说我们恳求您牢记，您曾经向我们承诺促进我们的贸易却没有兑现。
After six months, 25% of the original colonists have been lost. By the summer of 1699, lack of provisions and disease decimated the rest as deaths reached 10 a day. By July, the remaining ships fled the colony and limped to the small settlement of New York after they were turned away in Jamaica. Just 300 of the initial 1200 colonists would return home.
六个月后，原有移民的25%已失去。到了1699年夏天，由于缺乏粮食和疾病肆虐，其余人口锐减，每天死亡人数达到10人。到了7月份，剩下的船只逃离了移民地并在被牙买加拒绝后艰难地前往纽约的小聚居区。最初的1200名移民中只有300人回到家乡。
Unaware of the disaster, two ships and around 300 new colonists arrived at the abandoned colony in August, but found nothing but ruins and graves. When the ships burned in an accident in the harbor of the others hailed back home. Instead of that fall, a second expedition arrived also unaware that there was no colony to join. The thousand new colonists landed anyway to try and salvage the situation.
在8月份，两艘船和大约300名新殖民者毫不知情地抵达被遗弃的殖民地，但却发现一片废墟和墓地。当两艘船在港口遭遇事故着火后，其他人纷纷回家报信。尽管如此，第二次远征却毫不知情地抵达，却发现并没有殖民地可供加入。还是有一千名新的殖民者着陆了，试图拯救局势。
Enfiding amongst the leaders nearly paralyzed the country as the Spanish said a force to oust them. The situation was only briefly stabilized when Colonel Alexander Campbell arrived, sent by the company to prepare defense. Campbell provided able leadership and even defeated a Spanish force at a nearby stockade, but unfortunately he was wounded in the action and soon incapacitated by fever. The Spanish then sent eleven ships to evict the Scots and surrounded the struggling colony.
在领导人之间的内讧几乎使西班牙说，要推翻他们的势力瘫痪了这个国家。仅当代表公司前来准备防御的亚历山大·坎贝尔上校到来时，情况才短暂稳定。坎贝尔提供了能干的领导，甚至在附近的一座栅栏中击败了一支西班牙部队，但不幸的是他在战斗中受伤，并且很快因发烧而失去了能力。之后，西班牙人派出了十一艘船驱逐苏格兰人，并包围了这个努力挣扎的殖民地。
The native people abandoned the Scots to their fate, and on March 31st 1700 the surviving settlers signed the Articles of Depitulation, or allowed to leave with their guns. Most of the thousand settlers who arrived were already dead. The scope of the failure was enormous. Nearly all the ships would sink attempting to return home and what few colonists returned found in angry country. One colonist Roger Oswald wrote, since it pleased God that I preserved my life and had not the good fortune to lose it in this place, I never intended nor do intend to trouble my father anymore.
当地人放弃了苏格兰人，让他们自生自灭。在1700年3月31日，幸存的定居者签署了《投降协议》，或者允许他们带着枪离开。已经到达这里的上千名定居者中，大多数已经死亡。这次失败的规模是巨大的。几乎所有的船只试图回家时都会沉没，几乎所有回来的殖民者都发现他们回到了一个愤怒的国家。一位殖民者罗杰·奥斯瓦尔德写道：“由于上帝保佑了我生命，没有让我在这个地方丧生，在这里我从未打算去打扰我的父亲。”
The damage to Scottish pride was devastating, but no less than the loss of so much of the country's money. The company had lost more than half of the money raised in subscriptions, leaving investors destitute. The disaster was nearly complete and though the Scottish company survived, it struggled to find success in the face of English opposition. The ventures also been cited as a key part of why Scotland agreed to the acts of union in 1707, which United Scotland and England to form, the Kingdom of Great Britain.
苏格兰人的自豪感遭到了严重的打击，而国家财富的损失也毫不逊色。该公司损失了超过认股所得总额一半的资金，使得投资者陷入了贫困。这场灾难几乎是彻底的，尽管苏格兰公司幸存下来，但面对英格兰的反对，它难以取得成功。这些企业也被认为是苏格兰同意于1707年的联合法案的关键原因之一，这一法案将英格兰和苏格兰统一起来形成了大不列颠王国。
The disaster at Darien has long been held as an example of a small country whose ambitions exceeded their ability, but the fact is that the Scottish settlers at Darien were as well prepared as one of the other European colonists who had made that dangerous journey. Although the obstacles faced by the colony at Darien were perhaps larger than any of those other ones seeking to establish a new life in the new world. Their choice of location may have played a part in their failure.
达里恩灾难长期以来一直被视为一个小国野心过大的例子，但事实是，在达里恩的苏格兰定居者和其他前往新大陆的欧洲殖民者一样准备充分。尽管达里恩殖民地面临的障碍可能比任何其他试图建立新生活的殖民地都要大，但他们选择的位置可能在他们的失败中起了一定的作用。
Darien now, Panamanian province, remains a wilderness, sparsely populated in the only gap in the Pan American Highway. The colony at Darien was doomed not so much by poor planning than by the concerted opposition. In 1722, Scottish minister Francis Borland wrote a memoir of the colony and in it he concluded, no wonder that our infant colony here in Darien could not long thriving be by such ill neighbors, in a spot beset with grief and daily views of death.
达里恩现在是巴拿马省的一片荒野，人口稀少，是横跨泛美公路的唯一空隙。达里恩殖民地的失败并不是由于糟糕的规划而是因为协力反对。在1722年，苏格兰牧师弗朗西斯·博兰德写了一篇对殖民地的回忆录，并得出结论，在这个陷入悲痛和每日死亡景象的地方，我们在达里恩的幼儿殖民地难以生存，这并不奇怪。
Remote from friends, the object of envy, too many who did wish that we here might die. So when colonization, when you talk about colonization and empire, one of the places that doesn't come to mind is Scotland. And it's an, Scotland has an interesting story because I mean, honestly, their problem was England and that no matter what they tried to do, England was essentially trying to cut them off. It stopped them from being the king and they wanted to be yes. And that's true in this story, too, it was an England place, it's part.
远离朋友，成为羡慕的对象，太多人希望我们在这里死去。因此，当谈及殖民和帝国主义时，人们不会想到苏格兰。苏格兰有一个有趣的故事，因为说实话，他们的问题是英格兰，无论他们尝试什么，英格兰基本都在试图割断他们的联系。他们想成为国王，但英格兰一直阻止了他们。这个故事也是在英格兰背景下发生的一部分。
But it is amazing how they come together to make this colony. It is a story, I can't think of any other story like that. It's a story that they got there, even. But unlike all these other colonies, it wasn't that they were just fighting natives and nature and they're in the middle of tropical malaria zone. But every European power doesn't want them there. They're like mad that you're sitting up there and you know, you know, you have Panama and Nicaragua, you know, some they're not there, but they don't want you to be there. So they were fighting everybody in order to try to hang on there.
这个殖民地的建立令人惊叹，它是一个独特的故事，我想不出其他的故事可以和它相媲美。甚至连他们如何到达那里也是一个故事。但与所有其他殖民地不同的是，他们不仅与当地居民和自然斗争，在热带疟疾区的中心还要应对每个欧洲大国的反对。他们生存在那里让其他国家非常愤怒，虽然它们不在那里，比如巴拿马和尼加拉瓜，却不希望他们存在。因此，为了坚持下去，他们必须与所有人作斗争。
It was, I mean, you can look at it now and be like, man, I was a hopeless, I was a hopeless fight. But I can see it was a, it was a big deal for Scotland. And so they, it was truly a national, I mean, a national. I mean, maybe even more than any of the English colonies was how much they committed to it and what it meant to them. And so I mean, it's tragic that it fell. It's really tragic that it had, you know, essentially be constantly attacked by other Europeans until they were gone.
当时情况真的很绝望。现在看回去，人们可能会认为这是一场没有希望的战争。但是我能看出这对苏格兰来说是一件大事。他们真的非常投入这场战争，这是真正的国家事件。也许甚至比任何英格兰殖民地都更重要，这意味着对他们来说有多么重要。所以说，失落苏格兰真的很悲惨。事实上，这件事情一直在受到其他欧洲国家的攻击，直到苏格兰最终消失。
But I mean, the colony fails. A thousand guys show up that were supposed to come to the colony to know that it failed. They just go, we'll try again. Incredible.
我的意思是，殖民地失败了。有一千个人到达那里，本来应该是为了观察殖民地，结果却发现它失败了。他们只是说，我们会再试一次。简直令人难以置信。
Yeah, it's, I mean, it's absolutely, and then we were talking about that communication. Yeah. You know, imagine that you can't set a note saying, that it's the next thousand. It didn't work out. But they did and they, and they, and they, and they got off that boat and they kept trying. It's an absolute extraordinary.
是啊，我的意思是，这是绝对的，然后我们在谈论那种沟通。你知道，想象一下，你不能留下一张纸条说，这是下一千。但是他们却这么做了，他们下了船，一直在尝试。这是绝对非凡的。
Imagine getting off your boat, you're expecting to find something at least a colony there. Yeah, thriving colony that you're joining in. And what you find is an abandoned, abandoned, abandoned, abandoned fort. And that's it. And you, and you decide, huh, well, you know what? Let's just give it a try. I don't want to say I'll try. We'll try it again. And not very many of those made it out.
想象一下你下船，期待着至少能找到一个殖民地，一个正在兴旺发展的殖民地。然而，你却发现一个被遗弃的，荒废的，荒废的，荒废的要塞。这就是全部了。但你决定说：“好吧，让我们试试。”虽然并不是很多人最终能够成功逃离。
Yeah, it's, I mean, it tests a lot about what's going on in Europe at the time that people are willing to risk themselves like that. And you know, some places they're just sending the convicts because they got no choice. And some places it's, it's, you know, really people that are looking for elbow room.
是的，这个考验实际上测试了欧洲当前正发生的情况，即人们愿意冒这种风险。有些地方只是因为他们别无选择，所以只能派遣犯人。而在有些地方，真正的原因是人们寻找更多个人的空间。
But that, I mean, there's just a different spirit than we can imagine today. It's tough to move to an insane. Imagine moving to an abandoned colony in Panama, tropical from Scotland. From Scotland. I just can't imagine how unprepared that was nothing.
那时候的精神，跟我们今天无法想象的不同。难以想象要移居到一个疯狂的地方。想象一下，从苏格兰到巴拿马的废弃殖民地。从苏格兰。我无法想象那是多么不为所准备。
You know, when, when England goes to Plymouth or Virginia or even pop them, those were least vaguely similar compared to the absolute night and day that must have been going from Scotland to Panama. And because, you know, people that had, you know, did involve in the sort of things that this is one of the best prepared, best organized expeditions ever seen as in the best supply. I mean, still, still you couldn't survive. Couldn't do it.
你知道的，当英格兰去普利茅斯、弗吉尼亚甚至波普特姆的时候，那些地方至少在相对上有些相似，但从苏格兰到巴拿马的旅途必然是天差地别。因为你知道的，涉足这种事情的人们，本次远征准备最好、最有组织，有最充足的供应，但即便如此，仍然无法生存，也无法完成任务。
And it's, it was a difficulty. I mean, it was hard enough. It's hard enough to make the successful. And you know, we talked about how really very few of the colonies really made a lot of money. And I mean, Spain made a ton of money. Yes. Well, I mean, it's fair point. The Spain's, you know, became a world power because of it.
这是一件困难的事情。我的意思是，这已经很难了。要让它成功是非常困难的。我们讨论过，其实只有很少的殖民地赚到了很多的钱。而西班牙确实赚了大钱。是的，这是个公平的观点。西班牙因此成为了一个世界强国。
But quite often you went and, you know, that whole idea that you're going to go there and use the back timber or whatever you're going to send back. It takes an awfully long time before you get any return on the vessel. And when you have the difficulties, you know, what, it's a, you know, those counterfactuals of what would have happened if Scotland had been successful here.
但通常情况下，你去那里，你知道，你要用回程木材或任何你要返回的东西。在你从船只中获得回报之前，这需要非常长的时间。而当你遇到困难时，你会思考，如果苏格兰在这里成功，会发生什么。
It's, it's hard to imagine. I mean, you couldn't have been any more of a disaster than it was. But it's a or pretty difficult for it to be. If you really want to look at kind of fact, what if this is succeeded and essentially Panama had become, you know, to Scotland, what North America or Mexico was to. And then at the point where we realize how important the isthmus of Panama is, imagine if that's a part of a Scottish empire, I mean, that could have been an enormous fortune for Scotland.
这真的难以想象。我的意思是，你可以说这个计划完全是一场灾难。然而，要真正看待事实的话，如果这个计划成功了，那么巴拿马本来就像北美或者墨西哥一样重要，对苏格兰来说就成了一个宝贵的财富。想象一下如果巴拿马地峡是苏格兰帝国的一部分，当我们意识到它的重要性时，这将会是一个巨大的机遇。
That's, I mean, Scotland might be a more important nation today than England. Well, I mean, now they're, you know, now they're great Britain. But I mean, and you're one at the point that, that, you know, that you, I mean, all that's stuff that's going on in, in, in to create the great Britain and the United Kingdom and all that sort of stuff when you have a, a personal union between them.
那就是说，苏格兰可能比英格兰更重要。我是说，现在他们是大不列颠。但我的意思是，在历史上，苏格兰可能比英格兰更加重要。你也知道，现在正在推动建立大不列颠和联合王国的进程。这将使他们之间建立起个人联盟。
How, I mean, if, if Scotland really is as much of world power, or maybe has something more sellable, even than the North American colonies we're having, you know, what would that mean for the, the, the history of England and the United Kingdom? It's interesting to say.
如果苏格兰真的像世界强国一样，甚至比我们现在拥有的北美殖民地更有销售价值，那会对英国和联合王国的历史意味着什么呢？这是个很有意思的问题。
Hey, and I mean, who knows? It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's really difficult to see where things would go from there. Someone could write a really interesting story about it. Yeah.
嘿，我是说，谁知道呢？那个，那个，那个，是的，真的很难看出从那里会发生什么事情。有人可以写一个非常有趣的故事。是的。
（意思是说未来的事情很难预测，可以写一个有趣的故事来想象。）
And this is the sky. So, but I mean, it is, it's just such a compelling story because you just never imagined that Scotland was an imperial power in the Scotland. We're not creating a colony. And how much they, they went to do that, even though everybody else was like, no, we don't want this.
这是天空。但是，我的意思是，这是一个非常引人入胜的故事，因为你从来没有想到过苏格兰在苏格兰的历史上也曾是一个帝国。我们并没有创建一个殖民地。尽管其他人都说不，但他们仍然努力追求这一目标。
The whole reason, like we're talking about the kind of factuals, they didn't want other rivals that might be able to produce something powerful in the new world. You know, that's, that's what they were fighting over. So I mean, that's, that was what was at stake.
整个原因就是，我们在谈论事实，他们不想让其他可能能够在新世界中制造出强大产品的竞争对手存在。你知道，这就是他们为之奋斗的东西。所以说，我是说，那就是所涉及的利害关系。
And, you know, how are you kind of chipped at the end of the game, you know, and that they still did it. Yeah. And that gets everybody. And so at least is again, a compelling story of people who deserve to be remembered.
你知道吗，在游戏末尾你能感受到他们是如何不断被削弱的，但他们仍旧坚持了下来。是的，这个故事感动了每个人。所以，至少这是一个值得被记住的人们的感人故事。
I mean, it was, it was, oh, dacious and ambitious point. I, they, they decided to go through with it. And they were really in a place, I mean, they were right in the middle of everything. And while it was, it was, as they said, it was supposed to be this amazing location that was supposed to be useful to, I mean, they were, they were, they were, they were, they even talked about trying to do a canal through there.
我的意思是，那个计划相当大胆和雄心勃勃。他们决定付诸实践。他们当时身处环境中心位置，虽然这个地点被视为非常适于建造令人惊叹的建筑，并且可以带来巨大的效益，他们甚至谈论着要试着在那里建造一条运河。
And you know, the 18th century, which was pretty well before the, they were going to have the ability to do it. Yeah. Well, let's try to walk across and realize it. You know, it's, it's what, what looks then on a map is actually quite a lot of walking through rain forests. Yeah.
你知道吗，18世纪之前，他们并没有能力去完成这样的任务。是的，我们来试着步行穿越，亲身感受一下。你知道，在地图上看起来很简单，但其实需要穿过大片雨林，需要相当长的步行路程。
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll hear that. I hope that was a lot of the cool. Even, even, even Trizette that the Bay was not as nearly as good an anchorage as they thought that and, and, I mean, so in, you know, in many ways, you know, we don't want to talk about the cold or whatever. I mean, those tropical climates and tropical diseases.
是的，好的，我听到了。我希望那里很酷。即便是Trizette说，海湾并不像他们想像的那样是个好锚地。也就是说，在许多方面，我们不想谈论冷或其他什么。我的意思是那些热带气候和热带疾病。
And, you know, it's, it's possible that pop them, even if it had the, not been, you know, had the, the opposition that it did from other European nations, you know, might have just turned out, I mean, it's still a very sparsely populated part of the world. Yeah. One of the, one of the most sparsely populated in the Americas where it's the only place where there's, you know, a hole in the, the, the, the Pan American highway is it's just so remote and so heavily rain forest and mountainous and all these various things that they do still difficult to travel.
你知道，即使它没有受到其他欧洲国家的反对，它也有可能出现人口问题。这个地方仍然是世界上人口最稀少的地区之一。是美洲人口最稀少的地方，它是泛美公路上唯一一个“空洞”的地方，因为它非常偏远、雨林和山区密集，各种交通仍然非常困难。
I mean, maybe it was a different stuff. Yeah, it was never going to work, but they tried. You know, it was certainly brave. I, it's hard. You know, the guy who was, who was trying to sell it so many, he tried to sell it to so many people, Patterson dead and they all turned them down and it makes you wonder, did they know something that maybe Scotland didn't, where they, but on the other hand, they all had their own stuff going on. So, you know, maybe they just felt like they didn't have the time for it. But Scotland's, I mean, they shot their shot there. They were really, really making the effort that they needed to and.
我的意思是，也许是因为有不同的问题。是的，它从来都不会成功，但他们尝试了。你知道，这无疑是勇敢的。我很难说，那个试图向很多人销售的人，帕特森死了，他们都拒绝了他，这让你想到，也许他们知道一些苏格兰不知道的事情，但另一方面，他们都有自己的事情在忙。所以，也许他们觉得他们没有时间去做这个。但苏格兰，他们用尽了力气。他们真的非常非常努力去做他们需要做的事情。
Well, and they put this, I mean, they really put their national pride behind it. Which is you didn't actually see that necessarily in the early colonies, but. Yeah, people made, I mean, you know, you had people support it and backers, but I, I can't think of anywhere, where it was truly, you know, with so many individual scots put their money into this and they were talking about 20% of the capital of the whole country went into this and it wasn't just rich people.
他们真的把自己的民族自豪感投入到这里。虽然早期殖民地并没有看到这种情况，但是人们仍然支持并投资。但我无法想象到哪里真正有这么多苏格兰人把钱投入进去，他们谈论着整个国家资本的20%，而且不仅仅是富人。
It was all these people who were putting their money into it with the idea of we believe in Scotland and we have this pride in our, you know, in our kingdom and in our people. And it is too bad that it failed so dramatically. Well, I mean, it's heart-to-re thing history. Yeah, it's what's good or what's bad it was. What happened is that it failed. That's fair. And, you know, again, you might have always failed.
所有这些人都在为它投入他们的钱，因为他们相信苏格兰，为我们的王国和人民感到自豪。可惜它失败得如此惨烈。嗯，我的意思是，这是历史的无情事实。是的，它是好事还是坏事，它已经发生了，它失败了。这是公平的。而且，你知道，你可能总是会失败。
I might have been, you know, what I'm what you did is just not a good place to live. Or it might have been, you know, a whole different world if they had failed, but there's at least something important in saying they tried. Yeah. But they took on such obstacles and that they tried. It was. I mean, even in failures, there's successes to find and there's certainly things to remember.
我可能本来就是，你知道的，你所做的不是一个好地方居住的人。或者说，如果他们失败了，那可能是另一个完全不同的世界，但是起码有一些重要的东西在于他们努力尝试了。是的。但是他们克服了那么多障碍并且付诸了努力，这是很了不起的。我是说，即使是失败，也有成功可找，肯定有值得记住的事情。
And there were certainly, I mean, these people who went there, these large groups. I mean, the folks who went, you know, the first people who went to Jamestown and, uh, Plymouth and even Popham were fairly, fairly small numbers of people, but they were, they were talking, you know, several thousand. Mm-hmm. But we're showing up to Darian there. And that's, I mean, that's quite incredible.
当然也有那些去那里的人，那些庞大的群体。我的意思是说，那些去那里的人，例如第一批前往詹姆斯敦、普利茅斯和波赫姆的人，人数相当少，但他们谈论的是数千人。嗯。但他们却涌向了达里安。这是相当不可思议的。
And that's the number of people who were willing to, you know, to stake out a claim. And they had, they couldn't have any idea what they were walking into. Clearly, they didn't because they, they learned so much about it once they were there. Is that they, you were truly just like, we're, we're going to believe in this and face whatever problem we're going to face. And that's, that's amazing, especially when they all knew that, you know, the other European powers weren't going to help them.
这是愿意去占领领土的人数。他们当时并不知道自己会遇到什么情况，但是他们仍然走了进去。当他们到达后发现很多问题，但是他们仍然选择相信自己的决定，并面对所有可能的问题。这真的是非常了不起的事情，尤其是当他们知道其他欧洲大国不会帮助他们的情况下。
They may have hoped that France was more friendly. Well, they thought that the King of England would be more friendly. You know, because it was, it was their King too, right? And so, I mean, I think that they, a lot of times when they were investing, they thought they would get more support than that. But they kept going even when they knew they didn't, yeah, they ended up having to, you know, fight over it.
他们可能希望法国更友好一些。他们认为英王会更友好一些，你知道的，因为他也是他们的国王，对吧？所以，我想他们很多时候在投资时认为他们会得到更多的支持。但即使他们知道他们没有得到足够的支持，他们仍然继续前进，最终不得不为此而战。
I also thought as, you know, so many of our stories that it was cool how pirates came into this one, that they couldn't, so many people were unwilling to help on that. They, they turned to pirates. And pirates were one of the few people outside of the system, honestly, who had some kind of expertise in that region because you had, you know, you had pirates still selling around the country. They kind of had the same idea that no one else is here. So this is where we're going to be. And so they were able, they were the only people, honestly, who knew anything about what was going on there. And it's cool that that's how they were brought in.
我也认为，你知道的，我们许多故事中海盗的出现很酷，因为很多人不愿意帮助，所以他们转向了海盗。而海盗是少数不受制度控制的人之一，他们在这个地区有一定的专业知识，因为你知道，他们仍然在全国范围内贩卖货品。他们有一些与他人不同的想法，认为这里没有任何人，所以这就是他们要去的地方。因此，他们是唯一知道那里发生了什么的人，这很酷，也是他们被牵涉进来的原因。
And also, I mean, resourceful gosh, the, the Scots really were having everything thrown at them to you, you can't have people who, you know, anyone who's been there, no one's going to help you. And they still were like, well, let's find someone who will. Yeah. Well, it's more, it's more proof of the, you know, the truth, the fact that everybody knows that all good stories involve pirates. Yeah. Yeah.
并且，我是说，苏格兰人真的经历了种种的逆境，你不能指望任何人会帮你，即使有人曾经经历过。但他们仍然会说：“让我们找个人来帮帮忙。”这更加证明了一个事实，即所有好故事都包含了海盗。
And it is amazing that this, after everything that this may have played a significant role in, you know, the world we have today, which is that this failure was dramatic enough that Scotland decided that, but it was part of what made Scotland decide well, that, you know, it's agreed to these acts of union and so to fully, fully integrate themselves, you know, into the United Kingdom. But it's, it's, it really is an interesting thing to look at how, you know, that this was part of that. And it's not something people, you know, even when you're talking about those.
这很令人惊讶，因为尽管历史上有许多可能发挥重要作用的因素，但这次失败足够引人注目，以至于苏格兰决定接受这些联盟法案，完全融入联合王国，成为我们今天所看到的世界的一部分。这确实是一个有趣的问题，我们可以探讨一下，这也是苏格兰做出决定的其中一部分。即使在谈论这些问题时，人们也很少关注这个方面。
Yeah. Yeah. When you talk about English history, when you talk about why we, you know, they finally under the stewards decided that they were going to combine that, you know, instead of being a personal union that you would actually become the great Britain, the kingdom of Great Britain. You don't really think about, you know, that the Scottish colony failed. Yeah. But it was a part of the story.
是啊，当谈论英国历史时，当谈论为什么大不列颠王国最终决定把个人联盟转化为整合在一起的时候，你并不会想到苏格兰殖民地失败的事情。但是这也是故事的一部分。
And of course, that's, you know, that's about these complexities of, there's always so much to the story and even what you're, you know, what you're able to, to learn in history, class and stuff like that. It's always, it's almost always part of the story. All the events are connected. They always are. And I like that we're able to look at some stuff. It's one of the things I enjoy about this, making these little connections that are unexpected and less well known. I mean, that's what we like to do.
当然, 那就是关于这些复杂性的, 故事中总是有太多的东西，即使你在历史课上能学到的也只是故事的一部分。所有的事件都是相互关联的, 我很喜欢我们有能力去研究一些东西。这也是我喜欢这样做的原因之一, 它能让我们找到那些意想不到和不那么知名的联系。这就是我们乐于做的事情。
Of course. I love the history guys all about that.
当然。我喜欢历史，对于那些历史人物有很大的兴趣。
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