这段文字记录了 Shopify 首席执行官 Tobias Lütke 与 A16Z 联合创始人 Ben Horowitz 之间的一次对话。他们讨论了 Shopify 的起源、发展、管理风格、对社会问题的看法、对加密货币的观点，以及围绕人工智能和 Web3 的未来愿景。 Lütke 回忆说，Shopify 的诞生是因为他无法获得在加拿大的工作许可，这促使他在网上创办了一家单板滑雪公司。由于缺乏合适的电子商务软件，他感到沮丧，于是决定自己构建一个，专注于数字原住民的需求，而不是已有的零售商。这种以客户为中心的做法，源于个人需求以及对现有选择的不满，成为了 Shopify 的基本能量来源。 Horowitz 指出，风险投资家最初可能不会投资 Shopify，因为电子商务市场已经非常拥挤。 Lütke 解释说，该公司的成功源于满足了现有参与者未能满足的特定需求。 他强调了理解业务细节的重要性，并不断适应不断变化的技术格局，以确保 Shopify 保持相关性。 Lütke 还承认，他不喜欢那些扮演中心角色的首席执行官，更喜欢参与细节。 Lütke 挑战了传统的首席执行官形象，保持着亲力亲为，包括编写代码。 他认为，深入参与技术层面能让他做出更好的决策，并更有效地设定公司的发展方向。 他相信以细节为导向的方法，并解释说他目前的大部分执行团队都具有创始人背景。 通过紧跟人工智能和加密货币等技术进步，他可以预测未来的挑战和机遇。 然后，讨论转向了 Shopify 在公司内部对待政治和激进主义的方式。 Lütke 强调，公司的使命是促进创业和经济独立。 虽然他承认存在社会问题，但他不同意许多拟议的解决方案。 为了避免内部意见分歧，Shopify 鼓励员工在工作时间之外参与政治活动。 公司优先考虑其价值观的清晰性，并积极寻求使其员工与其核心使命保持一致。 Lütke 强调解决分裂行为和维护“无混蛋规则”以营造高效工作环境的重要性。 谈到加密货币，Lütke 强调了它通过去中心化赋予个人权力的潜力。 他设想未来互联网拥有原生货币，实现无缝的价值转移。 虽然目前使用加密货币购买实物产品的需求不高，但他认为继续探索其可能性至关重要。 Lütke 批评了之前的加密货币浪潮过于技术化，并建议专注于其重新分配权力和挑战中心化市场的潜力。 关于人工智能，Lütke 对过早监管的呼声表示担忧。 他认为，监管技术，尤其是在早期阶段，可能会扼杀创新。 他提倡开源开发和协作，强调需要将人工智能与加密货币集成以实现微支付和代币化。 Lütke 和 Horowitz 都看到了这两种技术之间的共生关系，每一种技术都可以解决另一种技术的挑战。 在回答听众提问时，Lütke 讨论了 Shopify 如何与可能不精通技术的商家沟通，强调了使需求与供应保持一致的重要性，以及利用现有金融基础设施的重要性。 他还分享了有关建立成功的合作伙伴计划的见解，倡导博弈论系统。 Lütke 最后强调，Shopify 优先构建高质量的软件，快速解决实际问题，同时建立激励系统。

This transcript features a conversation between Shopify CEO Tobias Lütke and A16Z co-founder Ben Horowitz. They discuss Shopify's origins, growth, management style, approach to societal issues, perspectives on cryptocurrency, and future visions around AI and Web3. Lütke recounts how Shopify was born out of his inability to secure a work permit in Canada, which led him to start a snowboarding company online. Frustrated by the lack of suitable e-commerce software, he decided to build his own, focusing on the needs of digital natives rather than established retailers. This customer-centric approach, driven by a personal need and dissatisfaction with existing options, became Shopify's foundational energy source. Horowitz points out that venture capitalists likely wouldn't have invested in Shopify initially due to the crowded e-commerce market. Lütke explains that the company's success stemmed from addressing a specific need that wasn't being met by the existing players. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the details of the business and constantly adapting to changing technological landscapes to ensure Shopify remains relevant. Lütke also admits that he dislikes CEO's with a central cast role, and prefers to be involved in the details. Lütke challenges the conventional CEO image by remaining hands-on, including writing code. He argues that being deeply involved in the technical aspects allows him to make better decisions and set the company's direction more effectively. He believes in a detail-oriented approach, and explains that the majority of his current executive team has founder backgrounds. By staying current with technological advancements like AI and crypto, he can anticipate future challenges and opportunities. The discussion then shifts to Shopify's approach to politics and activism within the company. Lütke emphasizes that the company's mission is to promote entrepreneurship and economic independence. While he acknowledges societal problems, he disagrees with many proposed solutions. To avoid internal division, Shopify encourages employees to engage in political activities outside of work hours. The company prioritizes clarity about its values and actively seeks to align its employees with its core mission. Lütke emphasizes the importance of addressing divisive behavior and maintaining a no-asshole rule to foster a productive work environment. Moving on to cryptocurrency, Lütke highlights its potential to empower individuals through decentralization. He envisions a future internet with native currency, enabling seamless value transfer. While the demand for using crypto for physical product purchases is currently low, he believes it's crucial to keep exploring its possibilities. Lütke criticizes the previous wave of crypto for being overly technical and suggests focusing on its potential to redistribute power and challenge centralized marketplaces. Regarding AI, Lütke expresses concern about the push for premature regulation. He argues that regulating technology, especially at an early stage, could stifle innovation. He advocates for open-source development and collaboration, emphasizing the need to integrate AI with crypto for micro payments and tokenization. Both Lütke and Horowitz see a symbiotic relationship between the two technologies, where each can address the other's challenges. In response to audience questions, Lütke discusses how Shopify communicates with merchants who may not be tech-savvy, emphasizes the importance of aligning demand with supply, and leveraging the existing financial infrastructure. He also shares insights into building a successful partner program, advocating for a game theoretical system. Lütke concludes by stressing that Shopify prioritizes building high-quality software that solves real problems quickly, while also building an incentive system.